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Subject: Re: My incredibly simplistic view

Author: blass uri

Date: 10:01:34 08/04/99

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On August 04, 1999 at 12:23:21, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On August 04, 1999 at 11:55:03, KarinsDad wrote:
>
>>On August 04, 1999 at 11:02:46, Fernando Villegas wrote:
>>
>>>I am not a programmer, but a seasoned player and maybe I can hint to other way
>>>to see this problem of the ?easy moves? on the ground of what a human player
>>>thinks and do when faced with an obvious move to do. And what an experienced
>>>player do is to discriminate between two different classes of ?obvious moves?:
>>>normal ones and those to answer  maybe-winning-sacrifices moves by the rival.
>>>A normal one is just to recapture a piece that has made a normal capture before.
>>>If my opponent take my bishop with a knight, so not giving nothing for free, I
>>>just analyze a few ply in order to discover if that capture is or not part of a
>>>mate combination, specially if that happens near my king. Mates combinations
>>>beginning with a  normal capture -by example, to kill a defensive piece before
>>>launching the mate attack- normally are inside an horizon of no more -normally-
>>>than 6 ply. So in these kind of cases -recapture after a ?normal? capture- that
>>>should be enough in a couple of seconds of search for the program.
>>>But then we have the second class of obvious moves, those that follow an
>>>strange, no normal move. If my opponent play Bxh3+ , so losing at once material,
>>>I tend to thinks that is part of a masive attack and so i will not recapture at
>>>once, but take a deep look, in fact deeper than against any other normal move. A
>>>program should do the same each time an aparent sacrifice is being performed. An
>>>ad-hon culd be to consier the quealuty of he previous moves. I suppose that an
>>>opponent that have played several best moves according he program is not a
>>>beginner and so every unbalanced mve that he do shuld be consdered with the
>>>utmost care. And vice versa.
>>>So, easy moves should be treated depending of what class of capture is being
>>>perfomed by the opponent. Is a balanced one in terms of material? Happens near
>>>the king or the queen? Is not balaced but on the contrary lose material?
>>>I Hope not to bother nobody with maybe an obvious analysis...:-)
>>>Fernando
>>
>>Good point. However, I often see in GM games an in between move after a capture.
>>The opponent HAS to reply to the in between move and then a move or several
>>moves later, the first GM picks up the "normal obvious retake". I think it would
>>be difficult to differentiate between many different types of forced moves
>>without searching further (in the current paradigms).
>>
>>I think this area of chess programming is a non-trivial one which can only be
>>resolved when programs start thinking more like humans and less like deep
>>searchers.
>>
>>KarinsDad :)
>
>
>I think intuition has a lot to do with a human's "that was easy" move.  IE
>you can intuit 'suspicion' (say) in a game like the one where Shirov played
>(I believe) Bh3 giving up the bishop for a winning endgame.  A computer might
>think taking the bishop was obvious... but a human would think "wait a minute,
>this is a GM, GM's don't hang pieces very often, so lets look a bit further to
>see what is going on.."
>
>That "intuition" is a difficult thing to match, programming-wise...

It is easy for computers to see that the evaluation of gxh3 is going down and
this is a good reason that it should not think of gxh3 as an obvious move.

If you have a real positive evaluation you expect it to go up and not to go
down.

Uri



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