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Subject: Re: Two Questions about Time management and matches on 1 or 2 computers

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 04:12:46 08/30/99

Go up one level in this thread


On August 30, 1999 at 07:07:40, blass uri wrote:

>On August 30, 1999 at 06:40:36, Ed Schröder wrote:
>
>>On August 30, 1999 at 02:27:40, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>On August 30, 1999 at 02:26:34, blass uri wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 29, 1999 at 21:20:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 29, 1999 at 18:17:13, Mogens Larsen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On August 29, 1999 at 15:22:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ed doesn't either.  And I wouldn't be surprised if everyone else doesn't spend
>>>>>>>a lot of time on ponder=off games either.  It is simply 'unnatural' to run a
>>>>>>>program that way... and most of us would rather spend time tuning the program
>>>>>>>in the state it will play games, not in some crippled state that a user might
>>>>>>>use to play games.  IE do we also tune for (a) tiny transposition tables;  (b)
>>>>>>>no opening book;  (c) no databases (endgame); (d) modified user parameter
>>>>>>>settings; (e) any other random thing a user might try???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>IE I do my testing in the configuration that plays the best/strongest.  Not in
>>>>>>>configurations that someone might use "just because it is there..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've been following the discussion with great interest and I have a couple of
>>>>>>questions, mostly due to ignorance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you play an engine-engine match on one computer with permanent brain on and a
>>>>>>match with permanent brain off. What match would most likely be the best
>>>>>>estimate of the difference in strength? What are the complications with
>>>>>>permanent brain? Some suggest that it's the same for both, but there might be a
>>>>>>difference prioritywise concerning processortime, or?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Best wishes...
>>>>>>Mogens
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Neither, unfortunately.  Here's why.
>>>>>
>>>>>Assume one null-move program and one non-null-move program.  If you use ponder
>>>>>mode, both will get 1/2 the machine basically.  Which means that in essence,
>>>>>the programs will be running on machines 1/2 the speed of the computer you are
>>>>>using.  That hurts a null-mover more, because reduced depth allows some critical
>>>>>null-move failures that deeper depths 'fix'.  So there, you get skewed results.
>>>>
>>>>I do not think that there is a rule that null movers earn more from time
>>>>relative to non null movers and it may be depend in the program.
>>>>I have no proof that Junior earn less from time relative to Null movers.
>>>
>>>The same for chessmaster theat is not a null mover
>>
>>Wrong, Johan uses null-move.
>>
>>Ed
>
>I remember that chessmaster could solve a position that Null movers failed to
>solve so I guessed it is not a null mover.
>
>Are there examples when chessmaster cannot see mate in 2 because of a null move
>problem?

Johan uses null-move in a different way than most other null-move programs.

Ed

>Uri



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