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Subject: Re: Two Questions about Time management and matches on 1 or 2 computers

Author: blass uri

Date: 04:07:40 08/30/99

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On August 30, 1999 at 06:40:36, Ed Schröder wrote:

>On August 30, 1999 at 02:27:40, blass uri wrote:
>
>>On August 30, 1999 at 02:26:34, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>On August 29, 1999 at 21:20:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 29, 1999 at 18:17:13, Mogens Larsen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 29, 1999 at 15:22:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Ed doesn't either.  And I wouldn't be surprised if everyone else doesn't spend
>>>>>>a lot of time on ponder=off games either.  It is simply 'unnatural' to run a
>>>>>>program that way... and most of us would rather spend time tuning the program
>>>>>>in the state it will play games, not in some crippled state that a user might
>>>>>>use to play games.  IE do we also tune for (a) tiny transposition tables;  (b)
>>>>>>no opening book;  (c) no databases (endgame); (d) modified user parameter
>>>>>>settings; (e) any other random thing a user might try???
>>>>>>
>>>>>>IE I do my testing in the configuration that plays the best/strongest.  Not in
>>>>>>configurations that someone might use "just because it is there..."
>>>>>
>>>>>I've been following the discussion with great interest and I have a couple of
>>>>>questions, mostly due to ignorance.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you play an engine-engine match on one computer with permanent brain on and a
>>>>>match with permanent brain off. What match would most likely be the best
>>>>>estimate of the difference in strength? What are the complications with
>>>>>permanent brain? Some suggest that it's the same for both, but there might be a
>>>>>difference prioritywise concerning processortime, or?
>>>>>
>>>>>Best wishes...
>>>>>Mogens
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Neither, unfortunately.  Here's why.
>>>>
>>>>Assume one null-move program and one non-null-move program.  If you use ponder
>>>>mode, both will get 1/2 the machine basically.  Which means that in essence,
>>>>the programs will be running on machines 1/2 the speed of the computer you are
>>>>using.  That hurts a null-mover more, because reduced depth allows some critical
>>>>null-move failures that deeper depths 'fix'.  So there, you get skewed results.
>>>
>>>I do not think that there is a rule that null movers earn more from time
>>>relative to non null movers and it may be depend in the program.
>>>I have no proof that Junior earn less from time relative to Null movers.
>>
>>The same for chessmaster theat is not a null mover
>
>Wrong, Johan uses null-move.
>
>Ed

I remember that chessmaster could solve a position that Null movers failed to
solve so I guessed it is not a null mover.

Are there examples when chessmaster cannot see mate in 2 because of a null move
problem?

Uri



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