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Subject: Re: How does the differences in computer speed, translate in terms of Elo?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 11:20:20 09/01/99

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On September 01, 1999 at 14:01:37, blass uri wrote:

>On September 01, 1999 at 09:35:57, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 01, 1999 at 08:57:57, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>On September 01, 1999 at 07:47:20, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 01, 1999 at 06:11:23, odell hall wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Is there a huge difference in terms of elo points between rebel 10 on the
>>>>>K6-600 amd and what my system K6-II350 ? The rebel page suggest that the
>>>>>diffence is very minor, 2554 for k6-amd and 2576 for k6600?  The reason I am
>>>>>asking is because i am getting a little obssesed with the need to have the
>>>>>strongest program, even though I could not beat rebel on my 486!!! I am
>>>>>wondering if it would really be worth it to upgrade? What's a few rating points?
>>>>>I probally would not notice the difference anyway.  I notice also that my rebel
>>>>>found all the moves of schroeders Amdk6 600  in the last grandmaster challenge.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>As I have said before, if you double the speed, your 2x faster rebel will
>>>>be about 70 points better than the slower one, when they play each other.
>>>>Against humans, there is too little data but it is certain that the 2x faster
>>>>one won't be 70 points better than humans it was playing equal with at the
>>>>slower speed...
>>>
>>>We have information that it is the case about p200MMX vs p90
>>>but we do not have information if it is the same at tournament time control for
>>>faster hardware.
>>>
>>>The only way to prove that it is the case or to prove the opposite is by playing
>>>games with faster hardware.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>Actually we do have this.  The first such experiment was run on horribly slow
>>hardware years ago.  Then Ken Thompson did the same with his belle machine and
>>got the same results although at least 100X faster hardware was used.  Hitech
>>did the same thing for longer time controls.  All three agreed.  Monty Newborn
>>and Ernst both investigated searching way deeper which simulates faster hardware
>>than anything other than Deep Blue has, and they _both_ found that deeper is
>>still better...  with no 'tapering off' at least thru ply 15 in the middlegame.
>>
>>I'm convinced that faster = better, and that it is still linear and not getting
>>worse.
>
>I am not convinced that it is still linear.
>The only proof can be by games and not by the probability to change your mind or
>to find a new move because it is possible that the new move does not change the
>result.
>
>There is a point when it stop to be linear because you cannot improve forever
>and it is not clear where is this point.
>
>I know results of many games of pentium200 vs p90 at tournament time control but
>I do not know the same for faster hardware(p450 vs p200).
>
>Uri


The first examples I gave _were_ from games.  First using 'tinkerbelle', then
using belle, then using hitech.  All three produced similar win/lose percentages
over shallower/slower searches, even though the games played with tinkerbelle
and then belle didn't go as deeply as later games...




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