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Subject: Re: 4 games! and my comment to these "games"

Author: Harald Faber

Date: 01:35:53 09/02/99

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On September 01, 1999 at 23:40:33, Dave Gomboc wrote:

>>>>>>AMD-K6-200, most out of 64MB RAM, 3min/move.
>>>
>>>>EXACTLY 3min/move EACH.
>>>
>>>What is the sense to give them 3 moves each exactly ???
>>>CSTal plays weaker in this time-control than in 40/120.
>>>so you weaken it.
>>
>>Yes, but the other programs had the EXACT same limitation. Obviously, if this
>>configuration weakens CSTal (as it should), it will also weaken it's competitors
>>(as it should). The test is still valid. It's just a different type of test AND
>>people have to take it for what it is and not try to make any other assumptions
>>about it. One cannot assume from a test like this that CSTal is weaker than
>>these particular opponents if permanent brain is turn on and/or the program
>>decides when how much time to spend on each move (which I believe is an
>>assumption Harald has made) because it lost games where these features were
>>turned off.
>
>Time management has become relatively important.  I'm not sure how much penalty
>there is to using a naive time management implementation than a sophisticated
>one.  It would be interesting to hear the opinion of commercial developers on
>this.  My guess would be 20+ elo.  It has been suggested that much work has gone
>into CSTal's time management code, so I sympathize with Thorsten's point of view
>here.
>
>I think it's best to test with a time control of n moves in x minutes, on two
>machines, with pondering on, where n should be significantly more than 1. :-)



Sure. But it doesn't change or lower the fact that BOTH PROGRAMS HAD THE SAME
CONDITIONS. PERIOD.



>>>>>Also : played on ONE machine or played on 2 machines ??
>>>>>permanent brain on/off ?
>>>
>>>>2 machines pb=off as they were played via e-mail.
>>>
>>>pah - than the games are nonsense ! you do not test the programs,
>>>you test something different.
>>
>>The games are not nonsense (you like that word I guess). Neither are the tests.
>>If you test G5 in your "prefered" configuration of permanent brains on and
>>program decided time per move, it would still be a valid test of JUST THAT
>>configuration (and no other configuration). It wouldn't tell you how well CSTal
>>or any other program would probably due in standard game times.
>>
>>What is it with this notion that testing MUST be done under x y z conditions and
>>cannot be done under p q r conditions? Results of any testing must take into
>>account the conditions set up, but that does not mean that a non-standard test
>>has no validity. Granted, if the two programs had different conditions, then
>>your point would be valid. But, the conditions were the same for both opponents.
>>
>>What tests like these CAN show (if enough games are played) is that there could
>>be configurations that are good for one program, but bad for another program.
>>But, that does not mean that the games are nonsense.
>>
>>KarinsDad :)
>
>It doesn't mean that the games are representative of the results one would get
>when playing comp-comp under tournament conditions, either.  Of course, you know
>that already.
>Dave



NOONE claimed that!





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