Author: Ricardo Gibert
Date: 03:05:26 09/14/99
Go up one level in this thread
On September 14, 1999 at 04:29:43, Ricardo Gibert wrote: >On September 13, 1999 at 22:11:25, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On September 13, 1999 at 20:01:23, Ricardo Gibert wrote: >> >>>On September 13, 1999 at 19:50:54, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On September 13, 1999 at 19:41:14, Ricardo Gibert wrote: >>>> >>>>>On September 13, 1999 at 19:08:22, Bruce Moreland wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On September 13, 1999 at 19:06:01, Charles Unruh wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>GM's can draw 50% of games or more at 5 minutes vs comps if that is their goal >>>>>>>i.e to draw. I say this because by taking said strategy i have been able to draw >>>>>>>about 15-20% of my games against comps and i'm just recently an expert. >>>>>>>Anti-computer play really pays the bills when doing this. Most progs seem to >>>>>>>want draws anyway, especially Genius. Now this is a bit contrary to how one >>>>>>>should play to get a draw vs humans, but we aren't talking about humans here :). >>>>>> >>>>>>I would be happy to take you up on this. Please email me if you want to arrange >>>>>>a time, and we can do this on ICC. >>>>>> >>>>>>Some GM's can do OK at 5 0, but there are a lot who will lose every game of a >>>>>>ten-game match, I think. >>>>>> >>>>>>bruce >>>>> >>>>>I've had similar experiences on ICC. I seem to be able to score more than my >>>>>fair share of draws against the computer programs playing there. If I try to win >>>>>I get "embarassed". But when I play to draw, the games I've been successful (5 3 >>>>>blitz unrated) at have followed 1 of 2 patterns: >>>>> >>>>>1) One of the crafty clones has a penchant for unsound gambits (Englund gambit >>>>>with f7-f6). I play solidly with a caro pawn structure and exchange down to an >>>>>ending, which I draw. >>>>>2) I play an exchange sac, which computer programs do not cope with as well as >>>>>they should. They don't understand the importance of activating their rook. One >>>>>game I almost won, but I screwed up and allowed counterplay and had to force a >>>>>draw. >>>>> >>>>>I'm 2411 on ICC. My best score in one day was 2 draws out of 4 games if I >>>>>remember correctly. I feel pretty sure these programs are easier to draw than >>>>>GMs. >>>> >>>> >>>>I'm with Bruce here. at 5 0 draws are probably hopeless. with an increment, >>>>the chances go up... but if you are expecting your opponent to play a bogus >>>>opening and then draw it, look out. Not _all_ clones (and certainly not the >>>>"real mccoy") play gambits... except for those that are reasonably sound, like >>>>the Evans, etc... >>>> >>>>I'd be happy to let you try your luck with 'crafty' on ICC or FICS if you want, >>>>as it is always interesting to see if I have problems I don't know of. But you >>>>probably want to talk to IM Kim Commons or Brian Hartman, first. Kim >>>>particularly plays for Draws vs Crafty and he is not real successful at doing >>>>so at blitz time controls... >>> >>>Type "search slo-mo blackdragon" at ICC. I score +1 -2 =1. I failed to remember >>>I had won a game when I wrote my previous post. If you go over the games, you >>>will see how effective my solid approach is and how unlucky I was that I did not >>>do better! I will try to figure out the names of some of the other comps I've >>>played. One was a CSTAL account, but I can't remmeber the name of the handle. I >>>thought all the games I played were 5 3, but I was mistaken. I've played faster >>>time limits, apparently. >> >> >>As I said, 'blackdragon' is unknown. It is an old version on slow hardware. >>If you'd like to try the 'real mccoy' for a match, unrated, let me know. It can >>be set up easily... >> >>If you aren't an IM, your chances of winning a blitz game are essentially zero. >>At least a real crafty, on real hardware, with reasonable book, and not >>intentionally weakened... It is _very_ difficult for IM players to beat it, >>whether the game is standard where they have their best chances, or blitz where >>it just doesn't lose many games vs GM players, and hardly any any vs IM >>players... >> >>But it is an easy hypothesis to test if you'd like... > >What was it about my post that made you think it was a personal challenge to >your program crafty? I made a GENERAL statement about programs in GENERAL and >shown that it was not just hot air with a specific example versus blackdragon >(over 2700 on ICC). I've proven I'm not just making it up. Not difficult to do >as my claim was not so extravagant. I claimed I could draw more than my fair >share of games and provided some corroboration. I don't have to do anymore than >that. I don't have any illusions about scoring well against your quad xeon >crafty. If it will cheer you up, I'm +0 -5 =0 versus eggsalad (1 cpu), but those >were 5 0 games. The bulk of the games I managed to draw were 5 3 as I remember, >which I haven't been able to locate yet. Playing chess programs without an >increment is really tough, no doubt about it. +0 -3 =1 versus shredderx a much stronger opponent than blackdragon. The draw has one of the exchange sacs i refered to earlier. I should have won that game, but I failed to prepare with a2-a3 and allowed counterplay. I also got short of time (5 0). I still cannot find the 5 3 games. Grrr.
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.