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Subject: Re: Suggestion for an interesting tournament - Volunteers needed

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 14:17:27 09/19/99

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On September 19, 1999 at 15:04:53, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On September 19, 1999 at 12:13:03, Will Singleton wrote:
>
>>On September 19, 1999 at 10:12:59, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On September 18, 1999 at 22:49:20, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I think a tournament on slow hardware (386-16 to 386-40, or 486 <=33MHz)
>>>>including top programs of the early 90s and programs of today would be very
>>>>interesting. We could amongst other things see if there have been really no
>>>>advances in software in the last 10 years.
>>>
>>
>>>I don't think the test would be 'fair' if that is what you want to examine.
>>>IE many of the software improvements come as a result of hardware changes that
>>>make the programs fast enough that they can do things they couldn't on slower
>>>hardware.  IE would you play _anyone_ if you could only do a 5 ply search?
>>>Would you even think about null-move R=2?  Would you have your program spend
>>>50% of its time in the evaluation?  THose are all decisions I had to address
>>>and the answer would be different if I was doing 1K nodes per second on a
>>>386/16..
>>>
>>
>>My program (since it only plays on one machine) definitely is targeted to that
>>speed (300 mhz).  It wouldn't be the same program if it had to play on a 68000
>>25 mhz.
>>
>>However, I'd like to know if some of the commercial programmers make provisions
>>for different targets, and alter search and eval strategies based on machine
>>speed.
>>
>>Will
>
>I think it's a very bad idea to target for a given speed. Sorry, but I see no
>reason to do this. When I make a change in Tiger I make various tests on
>different computers to be sure that nothing is broken. These tests include blitz
>games against Genius5 on my 386sx20 and longer games on a 300MHz computer.
>
>I think that making sure that the strength is unaffected at very different
>speeds is a way to make sure that you are going into the right direction. At
>least I think it works for me...
>
>
>    Christophe


I personally believe that doing this is impossible.  IE I can't imagine a
program that plays equally well if it searches to 6 plies or to 10 plies.  I
had this problem for years as my Cray Blitz development was mainly done on a
VAX, and then we would run on the Cray for tournaments.  And on occasion, it
was very obvious that things that were helping at 6 plies were killing us at
10...

just my opinion, of course.  But you certainly can't get away with null move
R=2 on a 386.  It will be so blind to king-side attacks that a good expert will
eat it alive.  I saw problems on a P5/133 with Crafty.  They don't show up near
as often on today's hardware...



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