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Subject: Re: Diep versus Deep Thought (hong kong 1996)

Author: blass uri

Date: 00:34:11 12/25/99

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On December 24, 1999 at 20:00:48, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On December 24, 1999 at 18:39:00, blass uri wrote:
>
>>On December 24, 1999 at 17:17:01, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>00:25 391314 (0) 8 -0.48 c2-c4 Qd8-h4 g2-g3 f4xg3 f2xg3 Rg6xg3 Nd5-f6 Ke8-e7 Qd1
>>>-e1 Rg3-h3
>
>>This line shows that it does not see it for the right reasons.
>
>remember, the lines are from hashtable and it's a fail low,
>obviously fail low doesn't show the correct line.
>
>>After c4 Qh4 g3 the right move for black is Qh3 and not f4xg3
>>
>>The line f4xg3 f2xg3 Rg6xg3 is not clearly winning for black and I guess that
>>deep thought expected this line when it played c4.
>
>>White can continue Qe1 Rh3 Qxh4 Rxh4 cxb5 and the question if g3 is better is a
>>positional question and not a tactical question.
>>
>>The evaluation of programs after f4xg3 are less than 1 pawn for black.
>
>>c4 is a tactical blunder not because of this line but because of the line with
>>Qh3
>
>Right. It just already sees something that's evil enough. Very likely
>not this line, but something that has to do with Qh3. We're just needing
>a bound that's it. Then we get a fail low.

I tried Genius3 with selective depth 0 after c4 Qh3 g3 Qh3 Rg1 and it needs 8
plies to see that Qxh2 is winning.

so I guess that it needs 13 plies with no extensions before c4 to see that c4 is
a tactical mistake.

I see lines of 2 plies when I tell genius3 1 ply with no extension so 13
plies+no extensions is practically 14 plies.

My point is that you need to see 14 plies to reject c4 for the reason of Qxh3
and not for a positional reason.

If Deep thought had some rules not to extend wasting tempo lines that are also
giving the queen for a pawn that it may explain the tactical mistake.

Uri



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