Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Conspiracy -- conshmiracy

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:13:19 01/19/00

Go up one level in this thread


On January 19, 2000 at 18:55:42, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On January 19, 2000 at 18:34:52, blass uri wrote:
>[snip]
>>The question is if the move of deeper blue was the right move.
>>It is not clear that 36.axb5 was the right move.
>So the argument against 36.axb5 was that it is not such a good move?
>Every program has bugs.  There are a very large number of tunable parameters
>with the deep blue machine.  Perhaps one (or many) of them was not optimal.
>



This is totally hopeless.  It plays moves too good.  It plays moves too bad.
Of course Kasparov did the same thing (h6 in round 6 is one that comes to
mind, resigning in game 2 is another.) But it seems that humans can do this,
but a computer can't.  DB has to play the move we think it should have played,
or else something is 'suspicious'...

twisted logic...




>>If it is not the right move then the expression solve for finding axb5 is not
>>the right expression.
>>
>>It is possible that it found this move because of a bug because I saw no tree
>>that prove to computers that axb5 is the right move.
>There are lots of moves that computers cannot verify.  They cannot verify the
>NOLOT positions, for instance.  If we saw the output of Deep Blue on the NOLOT
>positions and did not have SuperGM analysis already available, a lot of us would
>think the analysis was wrong or there might be a bug.
>
>>The case with the nolot positions is different because I think that there is a
>>tree to prove the solutions(it is easy for programs to see that playing moves
>>not in the tree is bad).
>I don't believe in any tree to prove solutions unless it leads to checkmate.  A
>deeper analysis can always reveal a better move.  Indeed, the analysis for the
>"... Goes Deep" articles in the computer chess journal shows that there is about
>a 17% chance of improvement for each new ply.  That means that the odds that we
>keep the current selection is (1-0.17) = 0.83.  So after two plies, the odds are
>.83*.83 = 0.6889, after 3 plies it is 0.571787.  After ten more plies it is
>0.1551604118721 or only about 16% chance that we keep the same move.
>
>A five year old looks at a chess board. He sees that he can take the pawn.  His
>big brother set up a trap to take the bishop.  But his dad is watching and sees
>a forced mate and kibitzes (he feels sorry for the 5 year old).
>
>As we move up the ladder, the more deeply we see, the better our choices.  I
>don't think it will ever stop getting better until you can see all the way to
>checkmate.
>
>In other words, all analysis is tenative.  Unless it leads directly to forced
>checkmate.



This page took 0.01 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.