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Subject: Re: penalty for opening H file of opponent when white and castled kingside

Author: Brian Richardson

Date: 08:01:22 10/01/00

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On October 01, 2000 at 06:38:48, Uri Blass wrote:

>On October 01, 2000 at 05:14:42, Mike Adams wrote:
>
>>On October 01, 2000 at 04:48:41, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On October 01, 2000 at 04:20:46, Mike Adams wrote:
>>>
>>>>    I've noticed that pulsar thinks the doubled pawns are worth more than the
>>>>danger of exposing its castle.  When its white and castles kingside this is
>>>>particular dangerous when it opens the H file especially if the rook is sitting
>>>>right there on H8.  I'm not as concerned about the F and G files because I think
>>>>it can better defend these files but it can be very difficult to moblize the
>>>>pieces to defend the H file.  Should i put a penalty in at 1.5 times the doubled
>>>>pawn bonus?
>>>
>>>Chess is not a simple game.
>>>There are cases when open h file is not dangerous  inspite of castling in the
>>>king side and there are cases when open f file is dangerous.
>>>
>>>I think that it is impossible to answer your question because the right panelty
>>>for open file should be dependent in the rest of the evaluation.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>yes but take a look at this position. pulsar is black and it plays Nxg3.
>>
>>[D] r1bq1rk1/ppp2p2/2n4p/3pP1pn/3P4/2P2NB1/P1P1B1PP/R2QK2R b KQ - 0 14
>>
>>
>>I think there are some general rules that you dont open the H file with the
>>opponents rook on H8.  Pulsar does have a king saftey function that tells it not
>>to advance its castle side pawns but in some positions it seems to like doing
>>that.  Maybe i'm not doing it right i gave it penalties similar to what the
>>simple chess program does for advancing castled pawns but sometimes when it
>>advances one pawn I think it gets easier for it to advance another if it thinks
>>it messes with the opponents postion.  That is another area i'll have to look
>>at.  With a check extension and deeper search pulsar, now over 2250 icc blitz,
>>can get itself out of a lot of diffictulties but some things are just stupid and
>>in this case i need to build into the evaluate that NxG3 followed by G4 are
>>really bad.  The question is how to do that in a narrow sense that does not give
>>it rules that are bad half the time.
>>The move sequence of the game was: .. NxG3 HxG3 G4 Qg2 Gxf3 Qxh6 and of course
>>its over.

I assume you meant Qd2 (not g2)

Getting it to see Gxf3 is bad is not easy to do. the material value
>>of the Knight distorts the search and particulary with nullmove its hard to see
>>at shallower depths like 5 or 6 even with check extensions. I'm trying the
>>positon at Gxf3 on different versions of pulsar to see how much depth it takes
>>to see that. So far with NUll move off it does the best and sees it at depth 6.

I use the following penalties in Tinker (which may be somewhat extreme):

KING_AH_NOPAWN_PENALTY	240 // Potential Trojan attack when king
			    // castled and no A/H pawns.
			    // asymmetric penalty must be enough
			    // to postpone P x (N or B)
KING_AH_ATTACK_PENALTY	120 // worse when opponent has 2xR + Q
KING_AH_OPEN_PENALTY	480 // worse when file completely open

It is asymetric in that these are the penalties for Tinker, but I divide by 4
when Tinker is the attacker.  The "attack" and "open" penalties are cummulative
with the nopawn penalty.  They are only added when the opponent has a rook or
queen on the open A/H file.  The completely open is when the opponent has no
pawns on the A/H file either.

Tinker finds gxf3 to be bad (-420) at 6 ply (when forced, it is mate in 5
afterwards).

>>A freind said he tried it with crafty and crafty had a hard time seeing that
>>Gxf3 is bad but I did not get to see that for myself.
>
>Crafty17.11 on a slow pentium200 has no problem to see in 3 seconds that gxf3 is
>losing.
>
>Crafty17.11 has also no problem to see after 68 seconds with the same hardware
>that the position after g4 Qd2 is bad for black(the score is 4.40 pawns for
>white at depth 9 for the move h5.
>
>The tactical mistake is g4 and there is no reason to push the pawns forward.
>
>I do not think that Nxg3 is a good idea but after Nxg3 hxg3 Kg7 I do not see a
>clear win for white.
>
>Uri



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