Author: Jason Williamson
Date: 04:18:13 10/10/00
Go up one level in this thread
On October 09, 2000 at 22:31:33, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On October 09, 2000 at 13:59:55, Aaron Tay wrote: > >>On October 09, 2000 at 13:38:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On October 09, 2000 at 12:46:27, Joshua Lee wrote: >>> >>>>Since you can't compare them by playing each other what about comparing >>>>printouts? Are there any printouts that have NPS Depth line etc. If i had this i >>>>would attempt. I did look at a game against Chiptest where CB had 14 Ne6 but >>>>played Na4<-- not the losing move but not as good as Ne6 CB get's a queen Vs 3 >>>>minor pieces which is not easy but it would be alot better than the situation >>>>before if CB could keep his queen on and exchange rooks it makes it easier. As >>>>Black's only chances would be to obtain a new queen not likely. So the outcome >>>>is probably a draw but this is just my guess. To see this move for Crafty would >>>>be over 14Ply on my 800Mhz Athlon just to give you some idea. If you can >>>>elaborate on CB's earlier versions and how they played maybe this will answer my >>>>questions and help you to improve on crafty. >>>> >>>> >>>>Sometimes it's all about asking the right question. >>>> >>>>thank you >>> >>> >>>Actually I did this a couple of years ago and posted the results in r.g.c.c I >>>believe. I took a couple of the world championship 1986 games (the wc won by >>>CB for the second time in a row) and had Crafty 'annotate' the games. It was >>>uncanny how they agreed tactically. Of course, 1986 CB was doing maybe 100-200K >>>nodes per second max, so crafty had a big edge in speed. But it found _zero_ >>>tactical mistakes by CB. >>> >>>I analyzed the games partly in a discussion with Chris Whittington where he >>>was into the usual mode of criticizing Cray Blitz for any reason. He picked on >>>one particular move as looking foolish. Someone else pointed out that CSTal >>>played the _same_ move, as it was tactically forced to avoid losing a pawn, >>>but of course that didn't make any difference. I became interested in how >>>Crafty would compare. I gave crafty more time than CB had, using faster >>>hardware than CB had (1986 hardware for CB, remember), and it couldn't find >>>any move it would label as a mistake or oversight. >>> >>>CB was tactically very strong. In most positional cases the two programs were >>>in agreement as well, which is not surprising since I wrote both. >>> >>>The main advantage CB might have had back then was far faster hardware than >>>anything I might run Crafty on in 1986. Of course Crafty would have run on a >>>Cray back then, but it would have been far slower as Crafty is not vectorized >>>while CB was. I suspect there is not a lot of difference in the two programs >>>today. CB might have a tactical edge due to singular extensions and a bit of >>>selectiveness near the leaf positions, while crafty probably has more >positional (particularly endgame) knowledge (excepting king safety where CB >was clearly better). >> >>Sorry to interrupt, but does that mean that as of today you wouldn't bet on >>Crafty running on your current hardware to beat CB (the lastest/last version)? >> >>So when do you anticipate will Crafty overtake CB? In 5 years time, when everone >>is using better hardware? > > >You will have to rephrase your question a bit. But to help, if you meant >"can crafty on the quad xeon play with Cray Blitz on the T90?" the answer >is _NO_. CB on the T90 runs at around 7M nodes per second, about 7X faster >than the quad xeon. I wouldn't want to play such a handicap match. > >On the other hand, if you mean "Can Crafty, on the best box you can get today >play with CB on the T90?" the answer is yes. I have some data from Tim Mann's >21264a machine which is about as fast as my quad xeon, but using a single cpu >at 667 mhz. A 16 cpu machine would be faster than Cray Blitz. And I would >expect it to win more than it would lose, although I think it would be pretty >close. Next question, which costs more the 16 cpu alpha or the 30 million dollar cray? ;)
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