Author: Bas Hamstra
Date: 06:05:45 10/18/00
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Albert, Thanks for your long post. I am sorry I am so hard to convince. In the dutch open I see indeed an attacking game against Nimzo. I am not impressed by it, just well tuned speculative evaluation. Now let's see the other strong opponents: - Against The King it was within 10 moves in the endgame - Bloodless draw against Quest The others don't count, they are all weak amateurs that are badly outsearched. Furhter I don't think Tiger-Nimzo is any more special than King-Nimzo. Look, this speculative "attacking" is no big deal. The real secret of CT is some search/pruning trick. This has worked, but the disadvantage was CT steered away from tactics, hence boring play. So they threw some speculative eval terms in. Regards, Bas. On October 17, 2000 at 10:07:20, Albert Silver wrote: >On October 17, 2000 at 04:44:58, Bas Hamstra wrote: > >>On October 15, 2000 at 22:12:12, Christophe Theron wrote: >> >>>On October 15, 2000 at 18:00:06, Bas Hamstra wrote: >>> >>>>On October 15, 2000 at 14:50:09, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 15, 2000 at 14:02:17, Ulrich Tuerke wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>What is Gambit Tiger ? >>>>>>Is it a new program or a new version of chess tiger ? >>>>>> >>>>>>Thx, Uli >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>It is a new engine. It is based on the frame of Chess Tiger, but has more >>>>>knowledge about king attacks. >>>>> >>>>>So it plays much more active and agressive chess. >>>>> >>>>>Both Chess Tiger 13.0 and Gambit Tiger 1.0 will be provided on the Rebel 11 CD. >>>> >>>>Are you sure it plays aggressive? Active? The King attacks. Comet and Diep do a >>>>good job. CSTal goes for the king. Compared to them CT plays utterly boring. >>>>Maybe because it focusses on defensive tactics? Use the saved cycles to search >>>>deeper? >>>> >>>>BUT it scores it's points... >>> >>> >>> >>>These days are OVER. You should update, Bas!!! >>> >>>Where have you been lately? >>> >>>Chess Tiger has CHANGED and the new Gambit Tiger engine is very agressive. >>> >>>I'm not going to post examples once again, but you should have a look at the >>>Nimzo8 - Gambit Tiger game at the Dutch Championship. I think it has been >>>posted here yesterday... >> >>I know, I was there. I will take a look at the game, haven't so far. >> >>However I was not impressed by several Gambit Tiger games at FICS against my >>program, on equal hardware. When it's boring of course both are to blame, but >>the point is it doesn't blow you off the board like TheKing or CSTal can do. > >You're mistaken. Although I think Gambit is the foremost attacking program >today(which doesn't mean there aren't positions others do better in), it is true >that it depends on the position. It can only shine when there IS an attack. No >one said it will transform dry-as-a-desert positions into a tactical >free-for-all, as that is most often impossible without shooting oneself in the >knees. Look at the games from the Dutch championship. Look at ALL of them. Yes, >there are plenty of boring endgames in which Gambit slowly outplays its >opponents, but those were a consequence of the positions obtained. In a sense, >it is exhilirating to see it do that when you know that its reputation is >another. It's engine when not attacking is basically Tiger 13, which I don't >find boring either BTW. Yet, when it does have an attack, it is capable of >producing some amazing things. Name a program capable of finding that stupendous >Rc6 in its game against Nimzo. I think even IMs would have troubkle with that >one. They might see it when shown, but would they have played it in a game? That >is the real question. I could post several positions with attacking >sequences/build-ups (I'm not talking about isolated tactical shots), that I >can't get any other program to find, and in some cases not even in the top >choices. It does overdo it and can lose in a very ugly way (it doesn't just >crash and burn -- it does so with the wings missing and the ejection equipment >damaged), but overall it seems to win more than it loses, and even against the >big boys. Tiger 13 is different, and yet the same. The endgame play and quiter >positions should yield identical results in most cases, yet it plays much more >energetically than the older Tiger in many positions, especially attacking ones. >Plus it has been seriously improved tactically, so it is faster, AND it's >endgame play has been taken a few levels higher. Now when analyzing positions, I >will make use of both engines as they have different things to offer, and that's >just the way I like it: more choices to the user! Some programs are just plain >fun to play against. In the past, personal favourites were Mchess, Rebel, and >Hiarcs. Now Tiger Gambit is a part of that small list. I play them all, but >those are the ones that make me come back for more. BTW, I don't have CSTal or >The King so cannot give them my vote, though by rep, I'm sure they would be >included. > > Albert > > > >>It >>is supposed to be in a different league, not to just play on until the opponent >>dies of age. Maybe the final version is different from the FICS beta. >> >> >>Regards, >>Bas.
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