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Subject: Re: Final result 24 games Shredder v Chess Tiger

Author: Chris Taylor

Date: 06:23:10 12/08/00

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On December 07, 2000 at 17:39:38, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote:

>On December 07, 2000 at 17:02:38, Chris Taylor wrote:
>
>>On December 07, 2000 at 14:16:04, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>On December 07, 2000 at 06:16:59, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 06, 2000 at 21:08:54, stuart taylor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 06, 2000 at 14:57:34, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks for playing this games.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Before you continue with Shredder I ask you to download the patch I have put on
>>>>>>our homepage today. There is a bug in the book learning in Shredder5 which gets
>>>>>>fixed by the patch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Stefan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>Do you really mean to say that that might have been the whole reason why CTs
>>>>>results got better as the match progressed?
>>>>
>>>>No.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>  I think that both the opening book competition and the learning component are
>>>>>artificial ways of gaining points, and spoil the true evaluation of playing
>>>>>strength.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, but the book and all the learning stuff are part of the program.
>>>>
>>>>Stefan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>That's right. Every program nowadays has a book designed specially for it, and a
>>>learning system in order to block the opponent from replaying won games.
>>>
>>>The book and the learning are weapons, but everybody has them now, so they just
>>>counter each other and in the end we are back at evaluating real engine
>>>strength. Actually a much better book can make a significant difference, but in
>>>the case of Tiger and Shredder the books have been written by the best authors
>>>you can find, so I don't expect a big difference in quality between them.
>>>
>>>The book and the learning system will hurt mainly programs that have a poor book
>>>(or an old one) and no learning at all. That is, it will hurt only older
>>>programs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Fscher randoms, and no-book openings, and equal number of K-pawn and Q-pawn
>>>>>openings (both book, and no -book) and equally for each colour should be
>>>>>included in tests (and, entire proccess should even be repeated at Tournament,
>>>>>Rapid and Blitz-equally)
>>>>>S.Taylor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>That's a good idea, and it would be nice if you could do these kind of tests.
>>>I'm very interested in the results. My guess is that you are going to discover
>>>that the results will be approximately the same than with the standard way of
>>>testing (books ON).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Christophe
>>
>>I would not mind running a Fischer random auto232 at 60 mins blitz.  It I could
>>do such a thing with all the different programs!
>>Or even a themed opening.
>>See how the programs play in say a Caro, or Budapest.....
>
>I'd prefer anything but Fischer random.
>
>Stefan

Please, may I ask why?  Is it a personal thing, or chess based thing?
I know a lot of hard work goes into opening books, and rightly so!  When you
spend as much time developing a chess program, I'm sure that a good book is a
priority!
After all a good start from the opening is a must......

If enough people say it is a bad idea, then I will drop it like......quickly!
Got enough good chess programs to keep normal chess auto232 going, for a long
time!

Chris Taylor.



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