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Subject: Re: Never Say "Impossible"

Author: J. Wesley Cleveland

Date: 12:10:33 05/16/01

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On May 16, 2001 at 14:07:18, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On May 16, 2001 at 13:05:13, J. Wesley Cleveland wrote:
>
>>On May 15, 2001 at 22:11:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On May 15, 2001 at 12:18:43, J. Wesley Cleveland wrote:
>>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>>>>First, how do you conclude 10^25?  assuming alpha/beta and sqrt(N)?
>>>>
>>>>It is a classic alpha-beta search with a transposition table large enough to
>>>>hold *all* positions found in the search. I'm guessing at the number of
>>>>positions, but I feel that the same logic should hold, as only positions with
>>>>one side playing perfectly would be seen.
>>>
>>>I don't follow.  We know that within the 50 move rule, the longest game that
>>>can be played is something over 10,000 plies.  IE 50 moves, then a pawn push
>>>or capture, then 50 more, etc.  Eventually you run out of pieces and it is a
>>>draw.  But 38^10000 and 10^25 seem to have little in common.  The alpha/beta
>>>algorithm is going to search about 38^50000 nodes to search that tree to max
>>>depth of 10,000.
>>
>>Look at it another way. The only positions that are visited by an alpha/beta
>>search (with perfect move ordering) are those where one side plays perfectly.
>>The question is what fraction of the total number of positions that is.
>>
>
>The precise formula is:
>
>    N = W^floor(D/2) + W^ceil(D/2) for all D.  floor means round down in integer
>math, ceil means round up.  For the cases where D is even:
>
>    N = 2 * W^(D/2)  which is 2 * sqrt(minimax).
>
>If you assume that the total number of positions is roughly 2^168, then you
>get 2 * sqrt(2^168) or 2 * 2^84.  Which is fairly close to the number of atoms
>in the universe.

2^84 = 1.9*10^25 If these were atoms, it would be 32 moles, or about 1kg of
silicon.



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