Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 10:18:45 06/18/01
Go up one level in this thread
On June 18, 2001 at 10:25:36, Uri Blass wrote: >On June 18, 2001 at 10:01:45, Ulrich Tuerke wrote: > >>On June 18, 2001 at 08:54:10, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On June 18, 2001 at 08:33:21, Ulrich Tuerke wrote: >>> >>>>On June 18, 2001 at 08:28:08, Bas Hamstra wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 17, 2001 at 01:09:50, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 16, 2001 at 22:59:06, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>From Gian-Carlo i received tonight a cool version of crafty 18.10, >>>>>>>namely a modified version of crafty. The modification was that it >>>>>>>is using a small sense of Singular extensions, using a 'moreland' >>>>>>>implementation. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Instead of modifying Crafty to simulate Deep Blue, why didn't you >>>>>>modify Netscape? Or anything else? I don't see _any_ point in >>>>>>taking a very fishy version of crafty and trying to conclude _anything_ >>>>>>about deep blue from it... >>>>>> >>>>>>Unless you are into counting chickens to forecast weather, or something >>>>>>else... >>>>> >>>>>I don't agree here. It is fun. Maybe not extremely accurate, but it says >>>>>*something* about the efficiency of their search, which I believe is horrible. I >>>>>think using SE and not nullmove is *inefficient* as compared to nullmove. We >>>>>don't need 100.0000% accurate data when it's obviously an order of magnitude >>>>>more inefficient. >>>> >>>>May be you are right, if the program is running on a PC. However if you can >>>>reach a huge depth anyway because of hardware, may be you can afford to use >>>>this, because it doesn't matter too much wasting one ply depth ? >>> >>>It is not about wasting one ply but about clearly more than it and >>>it is clear that not using null move is counter productive when the difference >>>becomes bigger and not smaller at longer time control so the fact that they had >>>better hardware only supports using null move. >> >>How can you be so sure ? Do you really know that all of the top programs are >>using null move. I wouldn't bet too high on this. There may be viable >>alternatives to this, though not being published. > >I know that Junior and Rebel do not use null move but they use other pruning >techniques. > >I do not believe that the technique of no pruning+singular extension is good at >long time control and this is the point. > >Uri This is like looking at an atomic bomb explosion and then trying to figure out how it was done. 1. Several million crates of dynamite. 2. Several million cases of nitroglycerine. 3. Several million tons of ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel. 4. Several million cubic feet of gas + oxygen mixed. 5. A mountain of fireworks. 6. feed 10 million people baked beans and then light a candle. 7. you-name-it. This is _exactly_ what is going on with the DB stuff, because _nobody_ knows exactly what they did, they only saw the final result.
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