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Subject: Re: Moderation: Please stop poking Odell

Author: Terry McCracken

Date: 04:47:28 07/17/01

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On July 17, 2001 at 04:19:04, Bruce Moreland wrote:

>On July 16, 2001 at 22:52:40, Terry McCracken wrote:
>
>>On July 16, 2001 at 19:58:39, odell hall wrote:
>>
>>>On July 16, 2001 at 19:50:07, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 16, 2001 at 00:58:25, Tanya Deborah wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 14:54:52, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 12:37:02, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 11:36:39, Otello Gnaramori wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 10:57:47, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 07:58:10, odell hall wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Give both technology and programming another 5 years and I believe by then we'll
>>>>>>>>>have _solid_ GM 2600+ chess playing monsters!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Terry
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That is truly an interesting point.
>>>>>>>>If it is just a matter of time let's just wait and see.
>>>>>>>>But probably Terry you are omitting some interesting signals coming from
>>>>>>>>Argentina. IMHO it is a sign that we are approaching that 2600 line very quickly
>>>>>>>>and some top program is probably already there in a certain configuration. The
>>>>>>>>match with Huebner can also contribute to clarify better the current "state of
>>>>>>>>the art" in computer chess since it is played at tournament time setting and Dr.
>>>>>>>>Huebner is an anticomps specialist.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Regards.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks for your reply, Mr. Gnaramori.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No, I considered the event in Argentina, but that doesn't convince me, we need
>>>>>>>much more data, before we can establish whether or not computers/chessprograms,
>>>>>>>really _are_ 2600 or better. I do agree that the _gap_ is certainly closing!
>>>>>>>The five year mark is a _cautious_ estimate.
>>>>>>>Actually in might be possible for programs to reach 2800 in the next 5 years,
>>>>>>>but that IMO is an optimistic guess!;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No this is not the optimistic guess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The optimistic guess is my guess
>>>>>>My guess is that you need to wait less time for it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My guess is that good chess programs can also teach the best humans to play
>>>>>>better so getting 2800 or even 2900 is not going to be enough to be number 1 in
>>>>>>the world.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Garry Kasparov, the best player in the world for many years, said that the best
>>>>>computer programs today, in a fast machine are clearly at GM level.(2600 elo to
>>>>>up). he also said that sometimes in closed positions, generally the machine
>>>>>played more weak, but also like a computer programs, the humans have also very
>>>>>weak points in their play that many times the computers dont have. Computers are
>>>>>clearly stronger than any human in Tactics, this is clear.  Humans are also
>>>>>good, but they are very far to the power of the machine to see some great
>>>>>tactics combinations. Tactics are like other people said here, very very
>>>>>important. You could be a great positional player, but if you miss a tactical
>>>>>shot in some position, you could lose the game very fast.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point is that Garry Kasparov said, and is completely sure, that Computer
>>>>>programs play at GM Level in a fast Computer. This no need more discussion,
>>>>>Computers programs are clearly at GM level. And soon, in a couple of years, we
>>>>>will have a program that play at Super GM strenght. This is really inevitable.
>>>>>We need to acept the challenge. Computers are time to time stronger, and
>>>>>stronger.
>>>>
>>>>There's always room for discussion Tanya;)
>>>>
>>>>Regardless, I would agree the best programs on the fastest hardware _are_ at the
>>>>GM level, and I doubt many will argue that today.(2500 is the beginning of the
>>>>GM Class)
>>>>Still it will be a few more years before computers are equal to the top GM's
>>>>and still a few more years after that, superior to the very best, including the
>>>>WCC, IMO.
>>>>In a decade it will all be academic, I feel. Still the human spirit is strong,
>>>>and even in 2010 I wouldn't count the very best out, but we'll see.
>>>>
>>>>Terry
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree, they still Can't get with the top 100 humans, but they are
>>>grandmasters. (Strength not title).
>>
>>Still Trolling Along?
>>
>>Shall I tell Mr. Bruce Moreland, you first tried to pick a fight with me
>>to no avail, and then started in with the first "Fish" that would "Bite"?
>>
>>Please don't play the "Innocent" with me!
>>
>>I have it all copied.
>>
>>TM
>
>Gack, I have better things to do.  If you want to complain to the moderators,
>please do so, rather than going "neener neener!" at Odell.  That's going to make
>him hiss and spit.
>
>bruce

Then you realize odell is the problem!

You should check the threads when something like this arises, I really have no
use for a *Troll*!

Terry



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