Author: Terry McCracken
Date: 04:47:28 07/17/01
Go up one level in this thread
On July 17, 2001 at 04:19:04, Bruce Moreland wrote: >On July 16, 2001 at 22:52:40, Terry McCracken wrote: > >>On July 16, 2001 at 19:58:39, odell hall wrote: >> >>>On July 16, 2001 at 19:50:07, Terry McCracken wrote: >>> >>>>On July 16, 2001 at 00:58:25, Tanya Deborah wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 14:54:52, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 12:37:02, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 11:36:39, Otello Gnaramori wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 10:57:47, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 07:58:10, odell hall wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Give both technology and programming another 5 years and I believe by then we'll >>>>>>>>>have _solid_ GM 2600+ chess playing monsters! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Terry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>That is truly an interesting point. >>>>>>>>If it is just a matter of time let's just wait and see. >>>>>>>>But probably Terry you are omitting some interesting signals coming from >>>>>>>>Argentina. IMHO it is a sign that we are approaching that 2600 line very quickly >>>>>>>>and some top program is probably already there in a certain configuration. The >>>>>>>>match with Huebner can also contribute to clarify better the current "state of >>>>>>>>the art" in computer chess since it is played at tournament time setting and Dr. >>>>>>>>Huebner is an anticomps specialist. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Regards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Thanks for your reply, Mr. Gnaramori. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>No, I considered the event in Argentina, but that doesn't convince me, we need >>>>>>>much more data, before we can establish whether or not computers/chessprograms, >>>>>>>really _are_ 2600 or better. I do agree that the _gap_ is certainly closing! >>>>>>>The five year mark is a _cautious_ estimate. >>>>>>>Actually in might be possible for programs to reach 2800 in the next 5 years, >>>>>>>but that IMO is an optimistic guess!;) >>>>>> >>>>>>No this is not the optimistic guess. >>>>>> >>>>>>The optimistic guess is my guess >>>>>>My guess is that you need to wait less time for it. >>>>>> >>>>>>My guess is that good chess programs can also teach the best humans to play >>>>>>better so getting 2800 or even 2900 is not going to be enough to be number 1 in >>>>>>the world. >>>>>> >>>>>>Uri >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Garry Kasparov, the best player in the world for many years, said that the best >>>>>computer programs today, in a fast machine are clearly at GM level.(2600 elo to >>>>>up). he also said that sometimes in closed positions, generally the machine >>>>>played more weak, but also like a computer programs, the humans have also very >>>>>weak points in their play that many times the computers dont have. Computers are >>>>>clearly stronger than any human in Tactics, this is clear. Humans are also >>>>>good, but they are very far to the power of the machine to see some great >>>>>tactics combinations. Tactics are like other people said here, very very >>>>>important. You could be a great positional player, but if you miss a tactical >>>>>shot in some position, you could lose the game very fast. >>>>> >>>>> The point is that Garry Kasparov said, and is completely sure, that Computer >>>>>programs play at GM Level in a fast Computer. This no need more discussion, >>>>>Computers programs are clearly at GM level. And soon, in a couple of years, we >>>>>will have a program that play at Super GM strenght. This is really inevitable. >>>>>We need to acept the challenge. Computers are time to time stronger, and >>>>>stronger. >>>> >>>>There's always room for discussion Tanya;) >>>> >>>>Regardless, I would agree the best programs on the fastest hardware _are_ at the >>>>GM level, and I doubt many will argue that today.(2500 is the beginning of the >>>>GM Class) >>>>Still it will be a few more years before computers are equal to the top GM's >>>>and still a few more years after that, superior to the very best, including the >>>>WCC, IMO. >>>>In a decade it will all be academic, I feel. Still the human spirit is strong, >>>>and even in 2010 I wouldn't count the very best out, but we'll see. >>>> >>>>Terry >>> >>> >>> I agree, they still Can't get with the top 100 humans, but they are >>>grandmasters. (Strength not title). >> >>Still Trolling Along? >> >>Shall I tell Mr. Bruce Moreland, you first tried to pick a fight with me >>to no avail, and then started in with the first "Fish" that would "Bite"? >> >>Please don't play the "Innocent" with me! >> >>I have it all copied. >> >>TM > >Gack, I have better things to do. If you want to complain to the moderators, >please do so, rather than going "neener neener!" at Odell. That's going to make >him hiss and spit. > >bruce Then you realize odell is the problem! You should check the threads when something like this arises, I really have no use for a *Troll*! Terry
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