Author: Bruce Moreland
Date: 01:19:04 07/17/01
Go up one level in this thread
On July 16, 2001 at 22:52:40, Terry McCracken wrote: >On July 16, 2001 at 19:58:39, odell hall wrote: > >>On July 16, 2001 at 19:50:07, Terry McCracken wrote: >> >>>On July 16, 2001 at 00:58:25, Tanya Deborah wrote: >>> >>>>On July 15, 2001 at 14:54:52, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 12:37:02, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 11:36:39, Otello Gnaramori wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 10:57:47, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 07:58:10, odell hall wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Give both technology and programming another 5 years and I believe by then we'll >>>>>>>>have _solid_ GM 2600+ chess playing monsters! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Terry >>>>>>> >>>>>>>That is truly an interesting point. >>>>>>>If it is just a matter of time let's just wait and see. >>>>>>>But probably Terry you are omitting some interesting signals coming from >>>>>>>Argentina. IMHO it is a sign that we are approaching that 2600 line very quickly >>>>>>>and some top program is probably already there in a certain configuration. The >>>>>>>match with Huebner can also contribute to clarify better the current "state of >>>>>>>the art" in computer chess since it is played at tournament time setting and Dr. >>>>>>>Huebner is an anticomps specialist. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Regards. >>>>>> >>>>>>Thanks for your reply, Mr. Gnaramori. >>>>>> >>>>>>No, I considered the event in Argentina, but that doesn't convince me, we need >>>>>>much more data, before we can establish whether or not computers/chessprograms, >>>>>>really _are_ 2600 or better. I do agree that the _gap_ is certainly closing! >>>>>>The five year mark is a _cautious_ estimate. >>>>>>Actually in might be possible for programs to reach 2800 in the next 5 years, >>>>>>but that IMO is an optimistic guess!;) >>>>> >>>>>No this is not the optimistic guess. >>>>> >>>>>The optimistic guess is my guess >>>>>My guess is that you need to wait less time for it. >>>>> >>>>>My guess is that good chess programs can also teach the best humans to play >>>>>better so getting 2800 or even 2900 is not going to be enough to be number 1 in >>>>>the world. >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Garry Kasparov, the best player in the world for many years, said that the best >>>>computer programs today, in a fast machine are clearly at GM level.(2600 elo to >>>>up). he also said that sometimes in closed positions, generally the machine >>>>played more weak, but also like a computer programs, the humans have also very >>>>weak points in their play that many times the computers dont have. Computers are >>>>clearly stronger than any human in Tactics, this is clear. Humans are also >>>>good, but they are very far to the power of the machine to see some great >>>>tactics combinations. Tactics are like other people said here, very very >>>>important. You could be a great positional player, but if you miss a tactical >>>>shot in some position, you could lose the game very fast. >>>> >>>> The point is that Garry Kasparov said, and is completely sure, that Computer >>>>programs play at GM Level in a fast Computer. This no need more discussion, >>>>Computers programs are clearly at GM level. And soon, in a couple of years, we >>>>will have a program that play at Super GM strenght. This is really inevitable. >>>>We need to acept the challenge. Computers are time to time stronger, and >>>>stronger. >>> >>>There's always room for discussion Tanya;) >>> >>>Regardless, I would agree the best programs on the fastest hardware _are_ at the >>>GM level, and I doubt many will argue that today.(2500 is the beginning of the >>>GM Class) >>>Still it will be a few more years before computers are equal to the top GM's >>>and still a few more years after that, superior to the very best, including the >>>WCC, IMO. >>>In a decade it will all be academic, I feel. Still the human spirit is strong, >>>and even in 2010 I wouldn't count the very best out, but we'll see. >>> >>>Terry >> >> >> I agree, they still Can't get with the top 100 humans, but they are >>grandmasters. (Strength not title). > >Still Trolling Along? > >Shall I tell Mr. Bruce Moreland, you first tried to pick a fight with me >to no avail, and then started in with the first "Fish" that would "Bite"? > >Please don't play the "Innocent" with me! > >I have it all copied. > >TM Gack, I have better things to do. If you want to complain to the moderators, please do so, rather than going "neener neener!" at Odell. That's going to make him hiss and spit. bruce
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