Author: Terry McCracken
Date: 19:52:40 07/16/01
Go up one level in this thread
On July 16, 2001 at 19:58:39, odell hall wrote: >On July 16, 2001 at 19:50:07, Terry McCracken wrote: > >>On July 16, 2001 at 00:58:25, Tanya Deborah wrote: >> >>>On July 15, 2001 at 14:54:52, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On July 15, 2001 at 12:37:02, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 11:36:39, Otello Gnaramori wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 10:57:47, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On July 15, 2001 at 07:58:10, odell hall wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Give both technology and programming another 5 years and I believe by then we'll >>>>>>>have _solid_ GM 2600+ chess playing monsters! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Terry >>>>>> >>>>>>That is truly an interesting point. >>>>>>If it is just a matter of time let's just wait and see. >>>>>>But probably Terry you are omitting some interesting signals coming from >>>>>>Argentina. IMHO it is a sign that we are approaching that 2600 line very quickly >>>>>>and some top program is probably already there in a certain configuration. The >>>>>>match with Huebner can also contribute to clarify better the current "state of >>>>>>the art" in computer chess since it is played at tournament time setting and Dr. >>>>>>Huebner is an anticomps specialist. >>>>>> >>>>>>Regards. >>>>> >>>>>Thanks for your reply, Mr. Gnaramori. >>>>> >>>>>No, I considered the event in Argentina, but that doesn't convince me, we need >>>>>much more data, before we can establish whether or not computers/chessprograms, >>>>>really _are_ 2600 or better. I do agree that the _gap_ is certainly closing! >>>>>The five year mark is a _cautious_ estimate. >>>>>Actually in might be possible for programs to reach 2800 in the next 5 years, >>>>>but that IMO is an optimistic guess!;) >>>> >>>>No this is not the optimistic guess. >>>> >>>>The optimistic guess is my guess >>>>My guess is that you need to wait less time for it. >>>> >>>>My guess is that good chess programs can also teach the best humans to play >>>>better so getting 2800 or even 2900 is not going to be enough to be number 1 in >>>>the world. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>> >>> >>>Garry Kasparov, the best player in the world for many years, said that the best >>>computer programs today, in a fast machine are clearly at GM level.(2600 elo to >>>up). he also said that sometimes in closed positions, generally the machine >>>played more weak, but also like a computer programs, the humans have also very >>>weak points in their play that many times the computers dont have. Computers are >>>clearly stronger than any human in Tactics, this is clear. Humans are also >>>good, but they are very far to the power of the machine to see some great >>>tactics combinations. Tactics are like other people said here, very very >>>important. You could be a great positional player, but if you miss a tactical >>>shot in some position, you could lose the game very fast. >>> >>> The point is that Garry Kasparov said, and is completely sure, that Computer >>>programs play at GM Level in a fast Computer. This no need more discussion, >>>Computers programs are clearly at GM level. And soon, in a couple of years, we >>>will have a program that play at Super GM strenght. This is really inevitable. >>>We need to acept the challenge. Computers are time to time stronger, and >>>stronger. >> >>There's always room for discussion Tanya;) >> >>Regardless, I would agree the best programs on the fastest hardware _are_ at the >>GM level, and I doubt many will argue that today.(2500 is the beginning of the >>GM Class) >>Still it will be a few more years before computers are equal to the top GM's >>and still a few more years after that, superior to the very best, including the >>WCC, IMO. >>In a decade it will all be academic, I feel. Still the human spirit is strong, >>and even in 2010 I wouldn't count the very best out, but we'll see. >> >>Terry > > > I agree, they still Can't get with the top 100 humans, but they are >grandmasters. (Strength not title). Still Trolling Along? Shall I tell Mr. Bruce Moreland, you first tried to pick a fight with me to no avail, and then started in with the first "Fish" that would "Bite"? Please don't play the "Innocent" with me! I have it all copied. TM
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