Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Congratulation for chesstiger(better performance than shredder in wmccc)

Author: Mark Young

Date: 07:04:45 08/24/01

Go up one level in this thread


On August 24, 2001 at 09:37:13, Ulrich Tuerke wrote:

>On August 24, 2001 at 08:52:51, Mark Young wrote:
>
>>On August 24, 2001 at 07:58:08, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On August 24, 2001 at 07:51:16, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 24, 2001 at 07:29:21, Günther Simon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 24, 2001 at 07:15:30, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On August 24, 2001 at 07:06:51, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here are the results by
>>>>>>>elostat program
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You can see that shredder is only 3th place micro based on the performance.
>>>>>>>Shredder is the world Micro champion by definition but Tiger and Rebel had a
>>>>>>>better performance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>1 Deep Junior 7                  : 2745  228 281     9    88.9 %   2384   22.2 %
>>>>>>>2 Quest (DeepFritz)              : 2550  266 169     9    66.7 %   2430   44.4 %
>>>>>>>3 Chess Tiger 14.6 Gambit Tiger  : 2499  291 229     9    55.6 %   2461   22.2 %
>>>>>>>4 Crafty 18.10X                  : 2467  291 165     9    55.6 %   2428   44.4 %
>>>>>>>5 Rebel                          : 2466  291 229     9    55.6 %   2428   22.2 %
>>>>>>>6 Shredder                       : 2466  266 249     9    66.7 %   2346   22.2 %
>>>>>>>7 Goliath                        : 2421  291 165     9    55.6 %   2382   44.4 %
>>>>>>>8 Gromit 3.9.5                   : 2364  278 201     9    61.1 %   2285   33.3 %
>>>>>>>9 Ferret                         : 2359  291 229     9    55.6 %   2320   22.2
>>>>>>>%10 Gandalf 5.0                   : 2310  291 229     9    55.6 %   2271   22.2
>>>>>>>%
>>>>>>>11 ParSOS                        : 2256  291 229     9    55.6 %   2217   22.2 %
>>>>>>>12 Diep                          : 2227  165 291     9    44.4 %   2265   44.4 %
>>>>>>>13 IsiChess X                    : 2166  201 278     9    38.9 %   2245   33.3 %
>>>>>>>14 Tao                           : 2165  229 291     9    44.4 %   2203   22.2 %
>>>>>>>15 Ruy Lopez                     : 2118  366 266     9    33.3 %   2238    0.0 %
>>>>>>>16 Pharaon                       : 2082  169 266     9    33.3 %   2202   44.4 %
>>>>>>>17 SpiderGirl                    : 2014  213 255     9    27.8 %   2180   33.3 %
>>>>>>>18 XiNiX                         : 1724  400 108     9     5.6 %   2216
>
>
>LOOK AT THE ERROR MARGINS ! ELOstat is in perfect agreement with everything.
>
>
>
> 11.1 %
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>congratulation also for the Deep Junior team for winning the event convincingly
>>>>>>>when the difference from the second place is almost 200 elo and the hardware
>>>>>>>explain less than 70 elo difference.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I can add that I think that it may be a better idea to use elostat to decide
>>>>>>about the world champion in the future.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I know that a lot of people are going to disagree but it is my opinion.
>>>>>>I prefer a complicated method that does more justive and not a simple method.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Sorry Uri - but this is really nonsens.
>>>>>You cant use ELO-Stat on a Swiss Tournament with 9 rounds as
>>>>>it is described by the author. ELO-Stat is designed to calculate
>>>>>ratings out of a pool of unknown rated progs with a very very lot
>>>>>of games.
>>>>>Therefor if you take a closer look at your table you would see that
>>>>>the error margin is at least 435!pts (Pharaon) and max 632!! (RuyLopez).
>>>>>And would you really believe Parallel SOS to be at 2256? :))
>>>>
>>>>The question is not which program is better.
>>>>competitions of 9 rounds are not supposed to answer this question.
>>>>
>>>>The question is which program did better result.
>>>>The elostat answer this question better than the ranking
>>>>
>>>>The rating is also based on average of 2300 if I remember corectly and should
>>>>not be compared with humans.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>You must be a strong Tigerfan to post this very unlike post, as it
>>>>>is diametral to all your previous posts about stats?!
>>>>
>>>>I do not see contradiction with previous posts of myself.
>>>>
>>>>>(Btw hasnt Shredder won against Tiger or am I out of memory?)
>>>>
>>>>Yes
>>>>Shredder won against tiger.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>I can add congratulations for crafty for being the best amatuer.
>>>I here that Gromit won the title of the best amatuer and it is unfair because
>>>Crafty was more than 100 elo better
>>>
>>>I know that Gromit beated Crafty in the last round but it does not change the
>>>fact that Crafty was more than 100 elo better based on elostat.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>A nine round Swiss tournament to determine the computer world championship in my
>>mind makes the title world champion a joke.  This is nothing more then another
>>computer chess tournament. To draw any conclusions from this one tournament and
>>then declare the winner to be the world champion makes me sick. If the title of
>>computer world champion means the winner is declared the strongest computer
>>program.
>
>It's just the same with human tournaments. The world champion is determined as
>the winner of a special tournament.

Not Correct, yes they play tournaments, but never using the Swiss tournament
system.

>
>That's an exciting and interesting way to determine the champion and I seriously
>can't see what's wrong with this.

You don't see a problem with an open tournament with only 9 rounds to declar a
world champion? No Human Champion has ever been declared this way.

>
>Defining the winner by some utility like ELOstat for a tourney is ridiculous
>anyway because you need at least 200 or more games to get reasonable error
>margins. So, the Maastricht ranking is certainly in perfect agreement with
>ELOstat statistics for this tourney provided you account for the error margins
>(what you have to do if you want to be kind of "scientific").
>
>Uli



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.