Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: alpha-beta is silly?

Author: Don Dailey

Date: 02:37:40 06/02/98

Go up one level in this thread


On June 02, 1998 at 05:03:32, Inmann Werner wrote:

>Alpha - Beta is silly?
>
>Yesterday, I tried the LCTII Test Suite, position LCTFIN01. I was
>amazed, that INMICHESS (my program) needed  depth 9 to solve  the
>position. (running pawn)
>
>
>The position: Kc2/Pf2/kc4/Pg4/Pf5/Ph6/pb7/pf7/pg7/ph6
>Best Moves: 1.f6  2.gxf6 3.f4 4.b5 5.g5 6.fxg5 7.fxg5 8.hxg5 9.g6
>....->Queen
>
>I did not understand, why it did not recognize the running pawn in depth
>5. The 3 beating moves afterwards should be made in the quiet search,
>and then there is the running pawn!
>Nothing at all! I debugged the program.
>Very fast it was in depth 5 and then in the quiet search. There it made
>the 3 beating moves up to ply 8 and the calculatin function brought back
>-844. (more then 8 pawns)!! Super!
>But then alpha-beta threw the move away, because it was blacks move, and
>black did not want to get this bad rating. This continued until the
>normal search was in depth 9, although the black moves are forced.
>But think! This all is normal alpha-beta with no programming failure!
>
>Conclusion: alpha-beta does no moves, where the player who moves get a
>bad rating, especially in qiet search, although if the moves are forced.
>It thinks, if ist my move, it only can get better. (Something like a
>Null-Move thinking). On one side, this makes alpha-beta fast. On the
>other side, trivial things get moved behind horizon.
>If you try to change this, the program gets worse, because in most
>positions, above is right.
>
>Is above conclusion correct?
>Has anybody thought deeper about this?
>
>Maybe, yesterday the first time, I understood alpha-beta.
>
>Besides: Fritz 4 also recognized the running Pawn in depth 9!
>
>Best Greetings
>
>Werner

Hi Innman,

I did not look at the position yet, but I know that Alpha/beta will
not throw out a good move.  One well known characteristic of alpha/beta
is the fact that it will ALWAYS give you the same result as a
full width search with no alpha beta.  This is fact, so perhaps
there is simply a bug.

If the queening move occurs in the quies search, and you have a
typical quies search where each side has the option to play a
null move and stop, then the opponent will take this option
rather than allow the program to queen.

Look for these things.  Another thing to try is a simple
technique of moving forward.  Play the correct first move and
see how many it takes.  Keep walking forward until it should
see it with a 1 ply search and note its behavior.  This might
give you clues to find the bug, or understand what is going on.

- Don

















This page took 0.01 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.