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Subject: Re: Pawn Hash Collisions in Crafty

Author: Sune Fischer

Date: 06:44:44 12/05/01

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On December 05, 2001 at 09:17:39, David Rasmussen wrote:

>That's all true. But I'm not asking "why doesn't this work". I am assuming that
>people think that 32-bits is ok for chess, and I'm indeed asking "are you sure
>that there isn't a problem with this, such as hitting too many different
>positions for this to be a good idea, because I am seeing collisions".

And I am saying, that _if_ you get collisions then that is most likely a
problem, but I don't understand why you are getting collisions at all in the
first place.

>Sure, but that would be a little harder to implement than the experiment I'm
>doing now. The important thing is that we want to be able to actually tell
>different positions apart. I have now rerun the experiment but with the change
>that I also check some of the data that is stored in the table, that is _not_
>dependant on anything (such as asymmetry og game phase) other than the pawn
>structure itself (such as the 8-bit bitboards of which files contain white
>pawns, likewise for black pawns, the 8-bit bitboards of files with passed
>pawns). And the collision rate is the same. This test is even stronger, as it
>positively says that the position that was hashed here was definately not the
>same position as this one, because they have pawns on different files. The rate
>seems to be exactly the same, and as I felt pretty sure that I had accounted for
>asymmetries and gamephases in the first place, this new experiment only confirms
>that.

We need Bob or some other third party to make tests too I think.

>If there _are_ collisions, those 10000 positions (if that is even a reasonable
>number, I assume it is), are getting overwritten pretty often.

>So why don't you
>believe that this is what is happening?

Why would they get overridden?
Most of them will fit in a small table, and since there are no more positions
there is nothing else to collide with.

>/David



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