Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 17:16:33 06/06/02
Go up one level in this thread
On June 06, 2002 at 19:24:54, Roy Eassa wrote: >On June 06, 2002 at 19:18:16, Roy Eassa wrote: > >>On June 06, 2002 at 18:02:43, J. Wesley Cleveland wrote: >> >>>On June 06, 2002 at 16:30:19, Roy Eassa wrote: >>> >>>>On June 06, 2002 at 16:25:01, Michael Vox wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 06, 2002 at 10:10:12, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>When Nalimov 32 piece tbs come out someday, it will be over. This will >>>>>eventually happen with stronger hardware. At least every worthy line will be >>>>>saved to dbases. It will no longer be Crafty vs Junior, it will be Crafty dbase >>>>>vs Junior dbase. >>>>> >>>>>No point in discussing computer chess anymore once this level of technology and >>>>>dbases is hit. >>>> >>>> >>>>I hope you're kidding. Even if every atom in the galaxy were used to store 1 >>>>bit of data, that still wouldn't be enough storage for 32-man TBs. (And 100 >>>>billion years wouldn't be enough time to compute them, even on a multi-terahertz >>>>computer.) >>> >>>You are off by a bit. All positions can be stored in ~160 bits, which means that >>>2^160 or 10^48 bits are enough for all TBs. There are more atoms than that in >>>the earth. As to calculation time, we should have fast enough computers in about >>>300 years, if Moore's law holds up. ;) >> >> >>First off, to store tablebases requires more data than just each position >>itself. Second, why did you raise 2 to the power of the number of bits? >> >>How many positions are possible in chess? It's a number with scores of digits, >>and *each* of these entries would require your 160 bits plus more for the other >>required fields (next move, etc.). >> >>And finally, I doubt Moore's Law will hold up for another 300 years! (If >>nothing else, it won't take nearly that long before the laws of physics prevent >>further speedups, at the rate of increase we've been experiencing.) > > >Upon further thought, I understand why you raised 2 to the power of the number >of bits. But does the 160 bits take into account the additional data required >in a tablebase? If not, you need several more bits, which should increase the >final number by orders of magnitude. Plus, I don't think anybody will ever turn >even every tenth atom in the Earth into storage for tablebases... 2^160 represents something just below the total number of unique chess positions. Of course, that has _nothing_ to do with solving the game, because path information will be critical with the 50 move rule. In that context, 2^160 words will barely be a start. It might well bu 2^160^160 for all I know at that kind of problem...
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