Author: Andreas Guettinger
Date: 05:16:55 10/03/02
Go up one level in this thread
On October 02, 2002 at 23:54:16, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On October 02, 2002 at 18:35:06, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On October 02, 2002 at 16:22:44, Hartmut Woldeit wrote: >> >>>On October 02, 2002 at 14:07:59, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On October 02, 2002 at 13:02:08, Hartmut Woldeit wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hallo, >>>>> >>>>>it's no new information that Crafty1714 is one of the best Crafty-versions. >>>>>Better than most of his followers. >>>> >>>>I do not know it. >>>>I only know that there is not big difference and you need hundreds of games to >>>>prove. >>> >>>Hallo Uri, >>> >>>I do not know "hundred of games". I'm watching engine-engine-games. >> >>I did not watch games of Crafty versions but saying that Crafty17.14 is clearly >>better than later crafty seems to me an insult to Bob who continue to work on >>crafty. > > >Note that I don't take it as an insult. I've heard this (and other such >things) more than once. The problem is that it is very difficult to play >two programs against each other and conclude which is best. Often the >result will be different than if each of the programs is played against a >group of _other_ programs... > >I have played 17.x vs 18.15 and I noticed that it won more than it lost >(the 17.14 version mentioned). However, I then played them _both_ on ICC >and noticed very little difference against other computers, with 18.x doing >just a little bit better. however, against humans, 18.x was significantly >better, most likely the result of endgame knowledge that has been added... > >It is just another example of how hard it is to say X is better than Y beyond >a shadow of a doubt. If you only want to play X vs Y then it is not so hard >to show that. But if you want to compare X to Y in _other_ ways, it becomes >much messier... It's all the same discussion over and over again. Some people are just fixed on the results of engine - engine matches. They don't care if e.g. there is not much endgame knowledge necessary for such games, because the other engine doesn't know anything about engines. The goal of a programmer should be the performance against humans, not the performance in engine-engine games. I'm sure that engines like Hiarcs or Crafty etc. are not weaker than the top shots Tiger15 or Deep Fritz7 in engine-human games. Just because the programmers are not interested as much in tuning their engines against other engines simply doesn't mean they perform weaker against humans. Andreas
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