Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 10:34:41 10/25/02
Go up one level in this thread
On October 24, 2002 at 11:13:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: In that case *all* partiticpants of the WCC would have to pay $500 according to your definition. You too, you probably got software for free which in Netherlands at least by our government is also seen as a payment, and when a government official gets presents above like 50$ then it's seen as bribery in case that could influences decisions. So crafty also is commercial. Further chessbase sells fritz cdroms with crafty at it too. So that's commercial. Receiving money for that is not mattering from that respect. In this case chessbase received the money, not you. So you would also have to pay $500. >On October 24, 2002 at 05:53:01, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On October 24, 2002 at 00:17:46, Russell Reagan wrote: >> >>>On October 23, 2002 at 07:11:53, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>> >>>>World Amateur Champion 2002 is not good enough? >>> >>>Maybe our definitions of "amateur" differ. In computer chess, I have always >>>thought it meant "not commercial", which rules out any possibility of Diep >>>winning this title. >>> >>>Russell >> >>Then everyone who has been on some stupid cdrom, even if it is a 'freeware' >>cdrom would have to pay $500 entry fee according to your definition. >> >>Of course that's nice for Levy to pay his bills, >>but how many entries do you get. 4? > >I disagree. If you get money for your program, you are commercial. Whether you >sold one or one million. If you get no money from your program, you are >amateur. >Crafty has been on all sorts of CDs. I've never gotten one cent for it. No way >it >could be considered "commercial". > >Commercial -> selling > > > >> >>At least a 25% chance for a medal spot... >> >>Only if a product very clearly lies under that name in a supermarket i would >>argue it to be commercial. >> >>Even then i find the entry fees exorbitant blackmail. Skipping some nonsense >>of Levy there: they also get around $50000 'organisation costs'. >> >>From my viewpoint that's plenty. I organize bigger events for only 1/5 of >>that price; thereby knowing that the tournament hall is then one of >>the bigger costs and exactly *that* is what the ICGA gets for free. >> >>For me the decision to join when i have to pay $500 entry fee, is pretty >>simple. I most likely don't join then. >> >>If Levy can get 50k from a sponsor, that's ok for me. His business. If he >>doesn't get it. Bad luck. >> >>Argument is that the $50k also has to pay for the ICGA magazine. I already >>clearly showed for what price you can make this. Of course i have also some >>experience there, with a few other magazines, so i don't let me get fooled. >> >>That keeps left from the magazine fees also quite some money. From that >>they pay a salary to someone doing the ICGA activities. Fine with me. >> >>But then still that $50k from the sponsor is not getting used at all. >> >>My argument is that they are a paid organization, and simply earn less >>if they manage to get less sponsor money. That's their choice, don't >>let participants pay the price for that. >> >>Right now the solution is already a bit unclear. >> >>With regard to most selling their stuff, like winboard cdroms. Or like DIEP. >>No i don't sell diep at the moment. I wait till i have some windows version >>released. I do not see how THAT makes me paying $500. >> >>Johan de Koning doesn't join world champs he says because he has to pay $500. >>Now if he doesn't join under Chessmaster but under 'The King', then there >>is an argument to say he has to pay $250. >> >>But now his viewpoint is probably that chessmaster has to pay that $500 >>entry fee. >> >>If such entry fees were not there, then Johan simply has no excuse to not >>join. >> >>I prefer giving Johan no excuse to not join. I don't want to be involved >>in principal viewpoints on who from the 2 has to pay. My viewpoint is easy: >>they earn a shitload of money on the event already, if they do no effort >>to get more members for ICCA journal (i cannot remember any marketing >>they make for the journal) that's their problem. If they CAN get more >>money from a sponsor because the event is getting seen as relevant, then >>that's their effort, their earnings. >> >>But WHY would i pay $500 entry fee. If they buy DIEP one day, they don't >>need to pay $500 either!
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