Author: James Swafford
Date: 11:29:23 10/25/02
Go up one level in this thread
On October 25, 2002 at 13:34:41, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On October 24, 2002 at 11:13:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: > <snip>. > >So crafty also is commercial. Further chessbase sells fritz cdroms >with crafty at it too. So that's commercial. Receiving money for >that is not mattering from that respect. In this case chessbase >received the money, not you. This is an interesting argument that I haven't thought of. If a piece of software is sold (not necessarily by the author), is it then commercial? I have seen Arasan on a games collection CD in Wal-Mart (or some such store), but I never considered Arasan to be commercial. The price was more for the "collection" than the software itself, if that makes sense. -- James > >So you would also have to pay $500. > >>On October 24, 2002 at 05:53:01, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>On October 24, 2002 at 00:17:46, Russell Reagan wrote: >>> >>>>On October 23, 2002 at 07:11:53, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>>> >>>>>World Amateur Champion 2002 is not good enough? >>>> >>>>Maybe our definitions of "amateur" differ. In computer chess, I have always >>>>thought it meant "not commercial", which rules out any possibility of Diep >>>>winning this title. >>>> >>>>Russell >>> >>>Then everyone who has been on some stupid cdrom, even if it is a 'freeware' >>>cdrom would have to pay $500 entry fee according to your definition. >>> >>>Of course that's nice for Levy to pay his bills, >>>but how many entries do you get. 4? >> >>I disagree. If you get money for your program, you are commercial. Whether you >>sold one or one million. If you get no money from your program, you are >>amateur. >>Crafty has been on all sorts of CDs. I've never gotten one cent for it. No way >>it >>could be considered "commercial". >> >>Commercial -> selling >> >> >> >>> >>>At least a 25% chance for a medal spot... >>> >>>Only if a product very clearly lies under that name in a supermarket i would >>>argue it to be commercial. >>> >>>Even then i find the entry fees exorbitant blackmail. Skipping some nonsense >>>of Levy there: they also get around $50000 'organisation costs'. >>> >>>From my viewpoint that's plenty. I organize bigger events for only 1/5 of >>>that price; thereby knowing that the tournament hall is then one of >>>the bigger costs and exactly *that* is what the ICGA gets for free. >>> >>>For me the decision to join when i have to pay $500 entry fee, is pretty >>>simple. I most likely don't join then. >>> >>>If Levy can get 50k from a sponsor, that's ok for me. His business. If he >>>doesn't get it. Bad luck. >>> >>>Argument is that the $50k also has to pay for the ICGA magazine. I already >>>clearly showed for what price you can make this. Of course i have also some >>>experience there, with a few other magazines, so i don't let me get fooled. >>> >>>That keeps left from the magazine fees also quite some money. From that >>>they pay a salary to someone doing the ICGA activities. Fine with me. >>> >>>But then still that $50k from the sponsor is not getting used at all. >>> >>>My argument is that they are a paid organization, and simply earn less >>>if they manage to get less sponsor money. That's their choice, don't >>>let participants pay the price for that. >>> >>>Right now the solution is already a bit unclear. >>> >>>With regard to most selling their stuff, like winboard cdroms. Or like DIEP. >>>No i don't sell diep at the moment. I wait till i have some windows version >>>released. I do not see how THAT makes me paying $500. >>> >>>Johan de Koning doesn't join world champs he says because he has to pay $500. >>>Now if he doesn't join under Chessmaster but under 'The King', then there >>>is an argument to say he has to pay $250. >>> >>>But now his viewpoint is probably that chessmaster has to pay that $500 >>>entry fee. >>> >>>If such entry fees were not there, then Johan simply has no excuse to not >>>join. >>> >>>I prefer giving Johan no excuse to not join. I don't want to be involved >>>in principal viewpoints on who from the 2 has to pay. My viewpoint is easy: >>>they earn a shitload of money on the event already, if they do no effort >>>to get more members for ICCA journal (i cannot remember any marketing >>>they make for the journal) that's their problem. If they CAN get more >>>money from a sponsor because the event is getting seen as relevant, then >>>that's their effort, their earnings. >>> >>>But WHY would i pay $500 entry fee. If they buy DIEP one day, they don't >>>need to pay $500 either!
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