Author: Chessfun
Date: 12:55:01 02/04/03
Go up one level in this thread
On February 04, 2003 at 08:22:28, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >On February 04, 2003 at 08:07:40, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On February 04, 2003 at 01:42:21, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >> >>>On February 03, 2003 at 19:05:27, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>> >>>>On February 03, 2003 at 18:54:54, Peter Hegger wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>...how is it that they now consistently play at the 2700-2800 level? Against >>>>>Kramnik (2810), against Bareev (2729), and now against Kasparov (2807), a >>>>>program is turning in a 2807 performance and very much _holding its own_ >>>>>Calling any modern program a 2500 player is akin to calling the above mentioned >>>>>super GM's 2500 players. >>>>>It also looks to me as though the SSDF list is getting closer to the reality of >>>>>the true state of program prowess than (admittedly) it use to be. >>>>>Any comments welcome. >>>>>Regards, >>>>>Peter >>>> >>>>A pity that you do not read. Show events are NOT a possible tool to calculate >>>>the strength. And hard competition doesn't exist. That's it. I still hold >>>>that comps are 2400 at best in fierce tournament chess. >>>> >>>> >>>>Rolf Tueschen >>> >>>Hi Rolf >>>I agree for the simple reason that spoken for myself (1980-200O ELO) I still get >>>a score of about 30 percent vs the top programs, of course without playing >>>anticomputerchess. And if the comps should have 2700 ELO and more, it would >>>almost be impossible for me to get a draw. Please also have a look at >>>http://www.skpfaeffikon.ch/Utzinger/Downloads/MyChessViewer/man.htm >>>Kurt >> >>I do not know. >> >>It is possible that you can get also 30% against 2700 players and it is also >>possible that your style is better against computers. >> >>It is possible that a player has a style that let him to get 50% against 2000 >>players and 30% against 2700 players. >> >>I have similiar elo to your elo but I do not think that I can get 30% against >>the top programs. >> >>It may be interesting to know how much can you get against Movei without special >>anti computer style(Movei is not at the level that it can get 30% against the >>top programs). >> >>Uri > >Never would I get 30 % against 2700 players, that's the point I argue that >something must be wrong with the high ELO ratings of the top programs. If I find >the time I would like to make the following experiment: let play a well known >(top solid) club collegue with over 2100 ELO vs some top programs. I am almost >sure he will not lose more than 4-6. This man is much stronger than myself but >has somewhat the same quiet style, being able to hold a position balanced. And >as to Movei: it could happen that my results are worse than vs Fritz8, Shredder7 >and so on. To demonstrate what I mean the following example: My feared opponent >is the good old MchessPro 8.0 with one single draw for me out of six games!! >Kurt Anytime you wish to try the "experiment" I will play your friend from my account at Chess.net,"G-N-U". Personally I am now convinced that professional programs are clearly of super GM strength, maybe not in the same way but by performance alone they would qualify. I myself have posted wins of mine against top programs and posted the first two games I played against Rebel Century 4 at the beta forum but for me it isn't it's strength against me that counts. Could a PC program like any human qualify and hold it's super GM rating over a period of time, IMO all data suggests strongly that it could. Sarah.
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