Author: Mark Young
Date: 06:40:14 11/07/98
Go up one level in this thread
On November 07, 1998 at 07:02:42, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >On November 07, 1998 at 06:05:18, Mark Young wrote: > >>On November 07, 1998 at 05:30:46, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >> >>>If you reread my comment, you wil notice I said that endings is the "weaker" >>>side of Rebel >> >>I know thats what you said, And I'm saying how many games did it take for you to >>lable Rebel 10 as "weaker" then Hiarcs 7 and Genius 5 in the endgame. I just >>want to know how much data you based this jugdement on. I am not saying your >>wrong.. I don't know. I just want to know how sure your judgement is. > >I think Rebel 10 has a better middlegame than Rebel 8/9, which is saying a real >lot, but basically the same endings. Assuming this is true, and I am quite >convinced it is, then I had 2 years to compare Rebel endings with Genius and >Hiarcs. Both stronger. In the match R10-H7b, Hiarcs won 5 games in the endgame, >some of them dead even in the beginning. Look, H7b "knows" a few things in the >endgame that no other commercial programs except Genius know. I don't have much game data for Rebel 10's endgames, so I pulled the 1986 Chess Informant off the self and took the first 18 of 36 endings to test Rebel 10 with. Just to see what results I would get. I don't have H7, but I got Genius 5 results also. Rebel 10 solved, 12 of 18 with in 7 min. Genius 5 solved, 9 of 18 with in 7 min. Rebel 10 was faster at solving 6 of the positions. Genius 5 was faster at solving 3 of the positions. [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "Zuger"] [Black "Rodriguez"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "8/8/2Pk3p/5ppP/3K4/p5P1/P7/8 w - - 0 1"] Key move c7, Rebel 10 - 0 sec. , Genius 5 - 0 sec. * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "Stove"] [Black "Gulko"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "8/8/3k4/3p1p1p/pp1P4/3K1PPP/P7/8 w - - 0 1"] Key move Kc2, Rebel 10 - 0 sec. , Genius 5 - 0 sec. * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "Oganjan"] [Black "Lagunov"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "8/8/8/4pr2/6N1/5P2/4k1K1/8 b - - 0 1"] Key move Rg5, Rebel 10 - 1:10 , Genius 5 - 7 sec. * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "D. M. Ciric "] [Black "Spraggett"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "8/5pbp/p3p1p1/1k2p1P1/R4P2/5K2/7P/8 w - - 0 1"] Key move Re4, Rebel 10 - 0 sec , Genius 5 - 0 sec. * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "Sabalov"] [Black "Kvejnis"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "8/7p/5Pk1/2p1K3/R7/8/4r3/8 w - - 0 1"] Key move Kd6, Rebel 10 - 15 sec. , Genius 5 - >7:00 * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "Gol'Din"] [Black "Kruppa"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "5k2/8/1p6/p7/1r3P1P/6K1/3R2P1/8 w - - 0 1"] Key move Kg4, Rebel 10 - 0 sec. , Genius 5 - 59 sec. * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "G. Flear"] [Black "Botterill"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "8/8/p2Pk3/7R/3r1P2/5K1P/8/8 b - - 0 1"] Key move a5, Rebel 10 - >7:00 , Genius 5 >7:00 1... * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "G. Flear"] [Black "Lawton"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "8/8/2P4R/2r3pP/P4pk1/8/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 1"] Key move a5, Rebel 10 - 4:49 , Genius 5 - >7:00 * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "Salov"] [Black "Serper"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "8/5k1p/3K4/1p4R1/1P6/6P1/2r5/8 b - - 0 1"] Key move Rc4, Rebel 10 - 9 sec. , Genius 5 - >7:00 1... * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "Haritonov"] [Black "Luk'janov"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "8/5k2/R5p1/p3K3/6P1/5P1r/8/8 w - - 0 1"] Key move Ra7, Rebel 10 - 1 sec. , Genius 5 - 1:12 * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "Azmajparasvili"] [Black "Barbulescu"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "8/5ppp/4pk2/8/p4P2/6P1/1rN1P2P/3BK3 b - - 0 1"] Key move e5, Rebel 10 - 6:56 , Genius 5 - 7 sec. * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "C. Silva"] [Black "B. Andonov"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "5R2/1p5K/3nk3/7P/P7/8/6r1/8 b - - 0 1"] Key move Rg5, Rebel 10 - >7:00 , Genius 5 - >7:00 * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "A. Petrosjan"] [Black "Sideif-Zade"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "2r5/5p1p/1P2k3/P2n4/2N5/1K6/5p1P/R7 b - - 0 1"] Key move Rc5, Rebel 10 - 0 sec. , Genius 5 - 0 sec. * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "Li Zunian"] [Black "Ftacnik"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "8/2p5/5kp1/pb2pp1p/3rP2P/2K1RPP1/PP1N4/8 b - - 0 1"] Key move f4, Rebel 10 - 19 sec. , Genius 5 - >7:00 * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "Henkin"] [Black "A. Kuz'min"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "2B5/pp6/2pp3p/2nPk3/2P1p1PP/2P3K1/P3R1P1/5r2 w - - 0 1"] Key move Bb7, Rebel 10 - >7:00 , Genius 5 - 6:49 * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "Kir. Georgiev"] [Black "Suba"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "1R6/r7/2k2bp1/5p1p/2KP1P1P/6P1/p7/B7 b - - 0 1"] Key move Ra4, Rebel 10 - >7:00 , Genius 5 - >7:00 * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "Knaak"] [Black "Casper"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "r7/P1R5/1r6/5pk1/7p/R7/6PK/8 w - - 0 1"] Key move Rh7, Rebel 10 - >7:00 , Genius 5 - >7:00 * [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1998.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "D. Rajkovic"] [Black "Skembris"] [Result "*"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [FEN "8/8/3k4/4p3/5pQ1/5P2/2q5/5K2 b - - 0 1"] Key move Qh7, Rebel 10 - >7:00 , Genius 5 - >7:00 > >>>> it seems stronger then Fritz 5, but only a >>>>bit stronger.(after 21 games Junior 5 is only +1 over Fritz 5.} >>> >>>I don't think you can estimate strength after one single match. >> >>I'm not sure what you mean here. > >I was only referring to your paragraph above. I had the impression that you >estimated Junior's strength after its match against Fritz 5. > >> I played and posted many matches with Fritz 5. >>I know how strong this program is. I just don't play all the programs before >>posting the results as you did here. And I see other Junior 5 results on here >>and in other places, So I got a good feel how well Junior 5 plays. > >I understand you better now. And yes, Junior 5 is very, very strong. Amir said >that J5 should be about 50 Elo points stronger than J4.6. In my opinion this is >too conservative. You said it, he is way too conservative in my opinion also. > >Enrique
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