Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Congrats to Stefan Meyer-Kahlen!

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:14:19 11/30/03

Go up one level in this thread


On November 30, 2003 at 13:54:10, Sandro Necchi wrote:

>On November 30, 2003 at 12:59:33, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 30, 2003 at 12:11:45, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>you are not fair as you did not read what has been written about what happened.
>>>
>>>What happened was allowed by the agreed (by all partecipants) rules.
>>
>>You are simply wrong.
>
>I was not there but what I wrote/being told makes you wrong, not me.

Nope.  The Johnny operator was told to claim a draw.  He chose not to as
he thought Shredder should win.  That is _not_ an option.  There is no
discussion about that point. The operator is _passive_.  His refusing to
claim the draw was _not_ passive.  He admitted it.


>
>>The operator can _not_ choose to play a move he
>>wants to play.  He _must_ play what the computer says to play.  And in this
>>case the computer said "I claim a draw"
>
>I was told that the program did not "claim a draw", this is why you are wrong.

Aha.  You want to "split hairs".  The program is not the GUI?  That's a
crock.  The "player" is a combination of the computer, the GUI, the
program, the operating system, and anything else used.  Shredder might
well be the best program there.  But that means _nothing_ here.  It had a
bug.  I lost games due to bugs, I drew won games due to bugs.  Its just
a part of chess.

Had I been sitting across the table from Johnny, _I_ would have claimed
the draw and refused to play on since my program had obviously made a mistake
due to a bug that was my fault.  To accept such a dishonest win taints the
event, the program, the author and the host.


>
>>and the operator chose to ignore that
>>and force the game to continue.
>>
>>That is _definitely_ against the rules.  It has _always_ been against the
>>rules.  The TD was incompetent for making such a stupid decision.
>>
>>There is _no_ wayh to justify this, and the 2003 WCCC title is forever
>>marred by this stupidity...
>
>I think this is quite unfair to the TD director.
>I will not follow you in making this kind of judgements. It is not in my style.
>I accept the decision by the TD director whichever it is.
>
>>I think it time for the ICGA to fall apart, or else find a good TD.  IM Mike
>>Valvo _never_ allowed such nonsense at all the events he ran.  Jaap simply has
>>no business doing this, it is "beyond his abilities".
>
>This is really unfair. I had a different opinion of you being fair.
>

How many examples of poor TD-manship would you like?  _every_ event has
yet another Jaap blunder.  I went to 20+ years of computer chess events
with IM Mike Valvo TDing most of them.  We _never_ had this sort of
nonsense.  Men were men.  Rules were rules.  No longer, apparently.

But if you want some examples of his nonsensical decisions, just ask.




>>>
>>>Maybe we can improve the rules, but we MUST followed and accept them once we
>>>have accepted them. Both in the good or bad.
>>
>>Everybody accepted the rules.  But the TD did _not_ follow them.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>There is no more we can say on thim matter. I understand we may have different
>>>opinions, but the rules are the rules.
>>
>>And the rules were broken...
>
>It seems this is your point of view, not everybody's....

Again, from someone on the team that benefitted.  The human operator may
_not_ interfere in the game.  The rules are _clear_.  They _always_ have
been.


>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Anything more on this matter may be just misleading.
>>
>>It is misleading to talk about a ridiculous decision that prevented Fritz
>>from winning an event it deserved to win?  Oh, I forgot which program you
>>were involved with.  :)
>
>I did not took any decision. Am I free to tell my point of view or only people
>that are on one side can?
>
>>
>>>
>>>Does anyone really believe that we would have been allowed to win the game if
>>>this was against the rules?
>>
>>
>>Yes, because we watched it _happen_.
>
>We are not sponsored by anyone...everybody know it...is seems you do not.
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I hope to see people talk about the chess games as players and not caring about
>>>things which have very little to do with chess.
>>>
>>>I am wondering if this is a chess site or something else...
>>
>>I would be more interested to know if the WCCC 2003 was a chess tournament,
>>or "somethign else" which is what it appeared to be.
>
>If you are a better programmer why you do not show it to us?

What does my being a "better programmer" have to do with anything?  Do you
simply want to shift the topic to something that is a bit more favorable to
you?  I didn't mention _anything_ about "better programmer".  This is about
rules and nothing else.


>
>>
>>>
>>>I stated that we would have won the championship no matter anything and we did.
>>
>>Ugh...
>
>Well, I did...people here wrote my post just after loosing to Fritz.

If rules were followed you would _not_ have won.  You would have been
1/2 point behind Fritz and the tournament would have been over.  Your
predictions count for one point less than nothing.  Predictions are cheap
and meaningless.  As I said, Shredder might have been the best program
there.  But it didn't honestly win the event.  This will be forever
tainted.


>
>>
>>>
>>>Think about how I could knew this from a chess point of view instead of making a
>>>lot of noise on nonsense things.
>>
>>
>>double ugh...
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Pls. speak about chess and chess games, engines etc...otherwise change sport.
>>
>>I think I'll go puke...
>
>Why not horses?

How about Karate?

I talk that language too, although it has nothing to do with this
lousy event management...

...


>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Sandro
>
>Sandro



This page took 0.01 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.