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Subject: Re: Toga II appears to be much more than a Fruit clone

Author: Günther Simon

Date: 15:51:07 03/31/05

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On March 31, 2005 at 15:56:00, Kurt Utzinger wrote:

>On March 31, 2005 at 15:50:52, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On March 31, 2005 at 15:40:43, Dave Kuntzsch wrote:
>>
>>>These are preliminary results after Toga's first tournament. The Ku suffix
>>>Craftys are private compiles with modified source. They are experimental and not
>>>available for distribution.
>>>
>>>Level: Blitz 5/0
>>>Hardware: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz
>>>
>>>    Program                 Elo    +   -   Games   Score   Av.Op.  Draws
>>>
>>>  1 Ruffian 1.0.5         : 2680    9   9  4228    62.4 %   2592   28.5 %
>>>  2 Toga II 0.93          : 2657   27  27   504    59.9 %   2587   24.2 %
>>>  3 ProDeo 1.1            : 2623   16  16  1519    54.2 %   2593   21.7 %
>>>  4 List 5.12             : 2620    8   8  4731    53.0 %   2599   28.5 %
>>>  5 Crafty 19.10 Ku       : 2612    8   8  4235    51.8 %   2600   36.2 %
>>>  6 Fruit 2.0             : 2602   12  12  2519    49.4 %   2606   21.3 %
>>>  7 ProDeo 1.0 WB         : 2598    9   9  4228    49.3 %   2603   23.1 %
>>>  8 Thinker 4.7a          : 2594    9   9  3724    48.4 %   2605   34.3 %
>>>  9 Crafty 19.10 Base     : 2589   12  12  2024    48.5 %   2600   39.7 %
>>> 10 Aristarch 4.50        : 2588    9   9  3724    47.7 %   2604   28.5 %
>>> 11 Crafty 19.13 Ku       : 2587   22  22   511    50.9 %   2581   48.5 %
>>> 12 Crafty Classic 2004   : 2583   11  11  2527    47.5 %   2600   36.8 %
>>> 13 Crafty 19.10b         : 2580   22  22   511    49.8 %   2582   47.2 %
>>> 14 Delfi 4.5             : 2571   12  12  2212    45.5 %   2602   29.0 %
>>> 15 SmarThink 0.17a       : 2554   27  27   504    42.8 %   2605   23.6 %
>>> 16 SOS-5                 : 2546   18  18  1016    43.1 %   2594   26.5 %
>>> 17 Crafty 19.18 Ku       : 2532   18  18  1015    40.6 %   2598   34.0 %
>>> 18 Zappa 1.0             : 2522   27  28   504    38.1 %   2606   21.8 %
>>> 19 AnMon 5.50            : 2516   15  15  1708    37.3 %   2607   19.1 %
>>>
>>>Dave
>>
>>It's a lot stronger.  Probably less than 1% of the code is modified.  It just
>>goes to show how a few clever changes can have a big impact on strenght.  In
>>this case, it looks like about 50 Elo.
>>
>>I would say that your subject line is highly misleading.
>
>      I am much surprised that Toga (a clone or modified
>      Fruit) seems to be accepted by most people. This
>      was not the case with other programs in the past :-(
>      Kurt


Absolutely agreed! Admitting to be a cloner doesn't make it better IMO.
Even if the few code changes (simple ones on a high level) really have
an impact of around 40-50 ELO, I am quite sure Fabien would have
tried the same techniques sooner or later, _if_ he had the time, but AFAIK
he has very little time currently in developing Fruit.
IMO the 'Toga extensions' just robbed Fruit's future...

Guenther



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