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Subject: Re: Rebel Performance Rating

Author: Bertil Eklund

Date: 00:02:58 09/20/99

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On September 19, 1999 at 09:37:36, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:

>On September 18, 1999 at 17:44:11, Stephen A. Boak wrote:
>
>>By the way, the Rebel Century Performance Rating for the match today was:
>>         >>  2553  <<
>>which is certainly in the range of Grandmaster ratings.
>
>Rebel's TPR so far is roughly 2480, which is not GM level. Ten games are not
>enough to know much, but taking into consideration that Rebel is the program
>that scored the best in Aegon over the years, this tpr seems to indicate that
>programs do not reach GM level yet at slow time controls and against motivated
>GMs. One more thing: considering that Rebel played these games with a hardware
>much faster than a P200MMX, it seems clear that the SSDF list is quite inflated,
>maybe by some 150 point

Are you the same Enrique that have played computerchess, for the last 20 years!?
How can you be so sure after 10-12 games! If only one or two of the games went
another way should it have proven that Rebel was of GM-strength.
We can take the games for Fritz5 and use them and we have 2600+ something or
CM6000
about 2600 or maybe ShredderX one game 2600 or maybe Hiarcs4 on P200MMX about
2500 or Hiarcs6 about 2600 in south-america. Rebel8 played two GM´s in Sweden
One win one draw, shall we use this for a guess?. Is this Rebel-challenge the
only valid rating-basis? The match favor the GM´s also, they can prepare for the
opponent and it´s never any problem with the time-controls for the GM´s, as is
the case in a face to face match. Once I played Rebel9 against Gandalf3 after 7
games Rebel9 was up 7-0. 8 games later the score was 7,5-7,5.
Mr Szub is also sure that Junior4.6 is better then Junior5. He knows that after
studying its style and a few games. I guess that he can be wrong this time.

The list should be correlated to the reality but we need a better base then
feelings and guesses. I guess that the base of the list is to high but is it 50
or maybe 250 points, it´s always fun to speculate!

Regards Bertil SSDF


>I think that someone has been saying all this for years. Hi Bob! :)
>
>Looking at the few 40/2 games played so far by programs against strong human
>opponents, I wonder if results wouldn't be similar if played against 2300
>people. The positional superiority of a 2300 player is still immense, and for
>them it might be a matter of avoiding tactics, as wise IMs and GMs do when
>playing computer programs. Maybe the Elo system works differently for programs?
>
>Aside form this, I don't think it makes sense to use the same opening book in
>comp-comp and in human-comp games. It is quite absurd to play openings that lead
>to positional games, where programs are quite dumb, and this is happening too
>often. Is it not a better idea to build a gambit-like book that tries to open
>the game and play tactics? Same for playing style. A program can afford to play
>the Orthodox against another program, because neither will understand a thing,
>but against a strong human player it's a mistake. Look, for instance, at Rebel-2
>yesterday.
>
>Enrique



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