Author: Enrique Irazoqui
Date: 14:51:29 12/12/99
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On December 12, 1999 at 17:41:43, blass uri wrote: >On December 12, 1999 at 14:54:27, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: > >>On December 12, 1999 at 13:29:29, Amir Ban wrote: >> >>>On December 12, 1999 at 09:48:31, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >>> >>>Dear Enrique, >> >>Hi Amir, >> >>>I'm surprised to read that you subscribe to this fast vs. knowledge nonsense, >>>which is as false as it is popular. >> >>It is not that I subscribe or unsubscribe. It is just that as a flower collector >>I do not know if it makes sense or not. I see hints in both directions and >>realize that I have no idea, and that's why I posted about it. Talking to other >>programmers I hear both sides: ones, agreeing ardently with you; others, >>opposing with equal passion. >> >>> The simple truth is that all programs are as >>>fast as their author can make them, and have as much knowledge as their author >>>practically knows how to put in them. >> >>Are you sure? I see some evidence to the contrary, particularly in the endings. >>Some of the strongest engines have no idea about such elementary stuff as bad >>bishops or Philidor endings. I also hear that some programmers get rid of >>knowledge in order to speed up the search, which causes the horror of other >>programmers. It seems that there are two opposite schools of thinking about al >>this. >> >>>>Mind you, I also think that without intuitions, whatever that is, exact, >>>>verifiable thinking tends to sterility, so from my let's call it feminine >>>>intuition (astrologically I am the intuitive cancer, double cancer in fact, soon >>>>triple I guess :(, what crap this astrology), and going back to this comp-comp >>>>vs. human-comp discussion, I sometimes wonder. To make it short, when looking at >>>>the Rebel-Baburin and Rebel Sherbakov games, I "know" that the fast finders >>>>couldn't play as well as Rebel. >>> >>>Untrue. J6 finds the critical choices in Rebel - Sherbakov to be rather easy, >>>and in my opinion understands Baburin - Rebel better than Rebel. It thinks that >>>at some points Baburin mishandled a white advantage (e.g. 28. Qc7 ?). >> >>I don't have it yet, so I can't tell about Junior 6. But would Junior have >>played some Rebel moves that defined the game, like 14...Ng4? Only Rebel and >>Shredder 4 seem to play this specific kind of game, and Rebel's play was >>impressively consistent. > >Junior5.9 can also find 14...Ng4 In my opinion it was not so much a question of "finding" Ng4 but of playing once out of book consistently with the opening line. Rd8 first, then Ng4, etc. Rebel did a splendid job at defining the game in the spirit of the gambit book of Jeroen. Some programs might have found the right moves here and there, but I didn't see any that would have build the game the way Rebel did. The Baburin game, of course. Enrique >After more than 22.5 minutes the main line of Junior5.9 begin with 14...Ng4 >15.Be2 Nh6 16.Nc7 Qxg2 17.Qh4 Rb8 18.Bxg7 > >I did not look at the screen so I do not know when it found Ng4 but Junior on >fast hardware can find at tournament time control what Junior5.9 on pentium200 >can find in 22.5 minutes. > >Uri
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