Author: Amir Ban
Date: 03:12:59 12/22/99
Go up one level in this thread
On December 21, 1999 at 23:05:41, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On December 21, 1999 at 18:56:01, Amir Ban wrote: > >>On December 21, 1999 at 17:48:49, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On December 21, 1999 at 15:38:45, James T. Walker wrote: >>> >>>>On December 21, 1999 at 14:54:47, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On December 21, 1999 at 14:18:05, Mike S. wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>This game is really horrible. I support what you say. Maybe programmers could >>>>>>define a condition like "If no advancement (evaluation increase) is made for ten >>>>>>moves, so accept a draw offer". The problem can also occur when a position is >>>>>>theoretically won by the side which has a material advantage (which the computer >>>>>>has and won't ever accept a draw therefore), but the computer can't find a >>>>>>method to win. >>>>>> >>>>>>Btw., has anybody ever got a draw offer from a program? I haven't. I would like >>>>>>to see this also. >>>>>> >>>>>>Regards, >>>>>>M.Scheidl >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>If you watch crafty play on ICC you will see it happen all the time. If you >>>>>play it on your own machine it will also offer draws.... >>>>> >>>>>and accept them when it is reasonable to do so. >>>> >>>>I assume you are talking about "The Crafty" and not Crafty Clones. My >>>>experience with Crafty is that it continues to play for a "Swindle" when the >>>>tablebases tell it the game is a draw. Crafty has other annoying habits like >>>>resigning at "Mate in 1" when it has been seeing mate for about 15 moves via the >>>>tablebases. >>>>Jim Walker >>> >>>What is annoying to you is just sound chess. It has been in _plenty_ of >>>drawn krp vs kr endings where the kr side made a mistake and lost. No reason >>>to offer a draw until the opponent draws the game. It has been in several >>>mate-in-N positions where the opponent couldn't mate (one was knn vs kp where >>>it had the kp). Why resign? Make your opponent win. Remember Kasparov vs Deep >>>Blue round 2? >> >>You are clouding a simple issue. The question is why crafty should refuse to >>draw when holding a KR against a KRP, or, even more atrociously, KN vs. KNP. >> >>Amir > > >If you play crafty (a human) and offer a draw if you have krp vs kr, it will >accept _every_ time. If you are using a computer, and are on ICC's computer >list, it will _never_ accept a draw. Because too many unscrupulous operators >offer a draw every move, sometimes 5 times per move, in an effort to catch it >in a programming error where it will accept. In one case, this happened about >3 months ago which caused me to permanently disable accepting draws vs >computers. Crafty had failed high vs Lonnie on ICC (running Fritz). The >score was +4. But it had to move after the fail high with no PV. After it >moved (a standard game) it did a short search (for the opponent) to get a move >to ponder. During this search, the 'draw' offer came in, and the search said >"I am way behind (it was searching for a move for Fritz, remember) so I will >happily accept". Vincent pointed this out to me. I fixed the problem, but >decided that "no more accepting draws" would be my policy from that point >forward against computers. Against humans it behaves entirely differently, >and most appreciate it. I fail to see the point. What's the relevance of being a computer to that ? How does a problem in your program have anything to do with facing a computer opponent ? Lonnie, as you perfectly know, hand-operates his programs, and the draw offer came from him, not from the program. If you are refusing him a draw in clear draw situations, you are behaving badly. You should at least feel bad about it, but something tells me you don't care. Amir
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