Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 20:05:41 12/21/99
Go up one level in this thread
On December 21, 1999 at 18:56:01, Amir Ban wrote: >On December 21, 1999 at 17:48:49, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On December 21, 1999 at 15:38:45, James T. Walker wrote: >> >>>On December 21, 1999 at 14:54:47, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On December 21, 1999 at 14:18:05, Mike S. wrote: >>>> >>>>>This game is really horrible. I support what you say. Maybe programmers could >>>>>define a condition like "If no advancement (evaluation increase) is made for ten >>>>>moves, so accept a draw offer". The problem can also occur when a position is >>>>>theoretically won by the side which has a material advantage (which the computer >>>>>has and won't ever accept a draw therefore), but the computer can't find a >>>>>method to win. >>>>> >>>>>Btw., has anybody ever got a draw offer from a program? I haven't. I would like >>>>>to see this also. >>>>> >>>>>Regards, >>>>>M.Scheidl >>>> >>>> >>>>If you watch crafty play on ICC you will see it happen all the time. If you >>>>play it on your own machine it will also offer draws.... >>>> >>>>and accept them when it is reasonable to do so. >>> >>>I assume you are talking about "The Crafty" and not Crafty Clones. My >>>experience with Crafty is that it continues to play for a "Swindle" when the >>>tablebases tell it the game is a draw. Crafty has other annoying habits like >>>resigning at "Mate in 1" when it has been seeing mate for about 15 moves via the >>>tablebases. >>>Jim Walker >> >>What is annoying to you is just sound chess. It has been in _plenty_ of >>drawn krp vs kr endings where the kr side made a mistake and lost. No reason >>to offer a draw until the opponent draws the game. It has been in several >>mate-in-N positions where the opponent couldn't mate (one was knn vs kp where >>it had the kp). Why resign? Make your opponent win. Remember Kasparov vs Deep >>Blue round 2? > >You are clouding a simple issue. The question is why crafty should refuse to >draw when holding a KR against a KRP, or, even more atrociously, KN vs. KNP. > >Amir If you play crafty (a human) and offer a draw if you have krp vs kr, it will accept _every_ time. If you are using a computer, and are on ICC's computer list, it will _never_ accept a draw. Because too many unscrupulous operators offer a draw every move, sometimes 5 times per move, in an effort to catch it in a programming error where it will accept. In one case, this happened about 3 months ago which caused me to permanently disable accepting draws vs computers. Crafty had failed high vs Lonnie on ICC (running Fritz). The score was +4. But it had to move after the fail high with no PV. After it moved (a standard game) it did a short search (for the opponent) to get a move to ponder. During this search, the 'draw' offer came in, and the search said "I am way behind (it was searching for a move for Fritz, remember) so I will happily accept". Vincent pointed this out to me. I fixed the problem, but decided that "no more accepting draws" would be my policy from that point forward against computers. Against humans it behaves entirely differently, and most appreciate it.
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