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Subject: Re: Are comments about Crafty 16.6 to harsh or just accurate observations?

Author: Bruce Moreland

Date: 19:45:52 01/11/00

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On January 11, 2000 at 18:25:44, Mark Young wrote:

>No one is just talking about one game, i agree any program can have a bad game,
>even Ferret, and you know my opinion on Ferret. And it has nothing to do with
>like or dislike of the programmer. I judge Ferret on what it shows me in games,
>as I do with Crafty. And I don't think it is smear to express ones opinion on
>any program as long as it is accurate. The only smear I seen was to the person
>who wrote one article and devoted a few words to Crafty that were accurate. Now
>some on this board think it is insane to say Crafty is weaker then the top
>commercial programs, and it is smear to explain why it is weaker. So I think the
>only way to resolve a dispute like this is with some games.

I didn't like Cock's article because I thought it used bad data to try to
support a proposition that Crafty was weak.  I don't say that I am going to
fight to the death to prevent anyone from presenting that proposition.

Pick a random person who doesn't like Bob, and have them write an article about
Crafty.  Do you think it is possible that there'd be little truth in the
article, even if every sentence in the article were literally true?  I can
easily believe this.

Just take that Hiarcs-Ferret game and annotate it as if white is brilliant and
black is completely incompetent, and you'd have an article that is factually
true and yet allows hugely different conclusions than if you write the same
article about Ferret-Fritz.

Perhaps the issue here is that Cock raised doubts in my mind about his motives
because of the way he presented his case.  Even if everything is true I think
the article still stunk.  Notice that I didn't argue against the truth of the
article, since I don't know if it is true or not.

I think people have a tough time talking about computer strength because very
few people are competent enough to analyze the games properly with their own
minds.  Instead they use statistically meaningless short matches and
tournaments, analysis made by other programs, and emphasis on class-B mistakes
that every program still makes.

If someone wants to talk about games from a higher-level perspective, I would be
happy to listen, and I bet Bob would be as well.

Likewise, if someone wants to learn enough statistics to perform a match and
accurately express what the results mean, it would be hard to argue with the
result, although if this effort is undertaken as a precursor to telling Bob that
he's wasted his life, or something similar to this, it might reflect rather
poorly upon the experimenter.

bruce




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