Author: stuart taylor
Date: 22:38:14 01/11/00
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On January 11, 2000 at 23:46:45, Roger wrote: >On January 11, 2000 at 23:18:02, stuart taylor wrote: > >>On January 11, 2000 at 22:57:58, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On January 11, 2000 at 21:46:38, Roger wrote: >>> >>>>Excerpt from the interview: >>>> >>>>"For instance, if you were to remove the database, you can >>>>have a computer ten times faster than it is today. Ten >>>>times faster than Deep Blue, easily. If it couldn't >>>>consult its opening book, my result would improve >>>>immediately. I think most of the top twenty, thirty >>>>players could beat Beep Blue if it wasn't allowed to >>>>consult an opening database. Or, even the opening >>>>database is restricted to a certain size. What happens >>>>is, their opening database is almost 400-500 MBs of >>>>information. It has access to all the games that are >>>>played but we have to remember all that. Or, if I am >>>>allowed to have a computer with me, okay, I can't check >>>>my thoughts but I can see what was played at any given >>>>time. My result would then go up." >>>> >>>>I think he's wrong about having a computer ten time faster than Deep Blue >>>>without the opening database. >>>> >>>>Still, what to make of the comment that the top twenty or thirty players could >>>>beat Deep Blue if deprived of its open database? >>>> >>>>Roger >>> >>> >>>I would agree. Anand is a good guy, but he doesn't know diddley about >>>computers. Opening book does _not_ slow the program down. I have no idea >>>where he got that. Probably based on the idea that if a human used a book, >>>he would do a lot of page flipping and stuff.. >> >>He didn't mean that! He meaned IF it didn't have access to its database >>then-even if it be ten times as fast etc. Still---------etc. >>That's what it looks like he meaned to say. >>S.Taylor > >I think you're right, Stuart. Makes more sense that way. Now, however, I'm just >as amazed as before, but in the opposite direction: How could he defeat a >computer ten times faster than Deep Blue? He seems very confident to me. Tiger >plays without an opening book, right? (perhaps it has a minimal book of a few >moves, I don't know) It seems to do okay. Now put Tiger up to Deep Blue speed. > >Roger There is still a big gap between human vision and understanding, and Deep Blue. And a 10x speed is a weak way of narrowing that gap-but one of the only ways.(tactics are anyway taken care of before that) But the greatest players have to make the greatest moves, and when the machine is already programed with almost any possible 20 greatest first moves in any game, that's already half the game in the machines pocket. And if the human manages with very hard word to take it out of book, he usually has to play inferior moves to do so.Since all the best moves are already known and in the computer. The human chessplayer is being very much abused in being made to compete with a telephone book. S.T.
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