Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 12:11:20 08/09/00
Go up one level in this thread
On August 09, 2000 at 02:28:25, Mark Young wrote: >On August 08, 2000 at 17:37:44, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On August 08, 2000 at 16:29:59, walter irvin wrote: >> >>>On August 08, 2000 at 10:33:34, Peter Hegger wrote: >>> >>>>Hello, >>>>This has probably been done to a certain extent already. I'm wondering how the >>>>games of the old masters, i.e. Morphy, Steinitz, Tarrasch etc...stand up under >>>>the scrutiny of today's best computers. Are the games still as clean and >>>>brilliant as they seemed to be a hundred years ago? Or have they been found to >>>>be error ridden relics of days gone by? >>>>I'm wondering in particular about the "evergreen" and the "immortal" games. >>>>Also, Bobby Fischer's "game of the century" against Byrne. >>>>Thanks for any help you can give me. >>>>Best Regards, >>>>Peter >>> i think you will find that the computer almost always out does the master in >>>key positions .computers crush just about all players in tactics . >> >>I disagree. >>They are better in short tactics but humans are better in long tactics. >> >> i guess the >>>the big question is could the computer reach a key position vs morphy ect >>>??????????? i think there are some old masters that had styles that a computer >>>just could not deal with 2 that come to mind are nimzovitch and petrosian .they >>>were masters of the closed position game .i think they would have laughed at >>>computers .on the other hand tactical masters like marshal morphy ect would have >>>got sliced and diced . >> >>Here is one winning moves of morphy >> >>[D]r1bq1rk1/ppp3p1/7p/3P2n1/2PQ1p2/1N5P/PPP2PPK/R1B2R2 b - - 0 1 >> >>Morphy won by Nf3+ >>programs need a long time to find this move because they cannot see deep enough. > >This position is right up Fritz 6a's power alley, it was able to find Nf3+ in >less then 1 min. > > >New position >r1bq1rk1/ppp3p1/7p/3P2n1/2PQ1p2/1N5P/PPP2PPK/R1B2R2 b - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Fritz 6: > >1...Bxh3 > +- (3.06) depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >1...Bxh3 2.gxh3 > +- (3.53) depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >1...f3 > +- (2.91) depth: 1/5 00:00:00 >1...f3 > ± (1.37) depth: 1/5 00:00:00 >1...f3 2.Bxg5 Qxg5 > ± (1.37) depth: 2/8 00:00:00 >1...f3 2.Bxg5 Qxg5 3.g3 > ± (1.22) depth: 3/12 00:00:00 >1...f3 2.Bxg5 Qxg5 3.Rg1 fxg2 4.Rxg2 > ± (1.19) depth: 4/12 00:00:00 2kN >1...f3 2.Bxg5 Qxg5 3.Rg1 Qf5 4.Qc3 fxg2 5.Rxg2 > ± (1.31) depth: 5/21 00:00:00 13kN >1...f3 2.Bxg5 Qxg5 3.Rg1 Qf5 4.Qc3 fxg2 5.Rxg2 > ± (1.31) depth: 6/20 00:00:00 27kN >1...Bxh3! > ± (1.28) depth: 6/20 00:00:00 51kN >1...Bxh3 2.f3 Bf5 3.c3 Qe8 4.Bxf4 Qh5+ 5.Kg1 > ± (1.28) depth: 7/24 00:00:00 125kN >1...Bxh3 2.f3 Bf5 3.c3 Qe8 4.Bxf4 Qh5+ 5.Kg1 Bd3 > ± (1.31) depth: 8/23 00:00:00 260kN >1...f3 > ± (1.28) depth: 8/24 00:00:00 314kN >1...f3 2.Bxg5 Qxg5 3.Rg1 Qf5 4.Qc3 Qf4+ 5.g3 Qf5 6.g4 > ± (1.16) depth: 9/26 00:00:01 731kN >1...Bxh3 > ± (1.12) depth: 9/27 00:00:01 1317kN >1...Bxh3 2.f3 Bc8 3.Bxf4 Ne6 4.dxe6 Qh4+ 5.Kg1 Rxf4 6.Qd5 > ± (1.00) depth: 9/27 00:00:02 1698kN >1...Bxh3 2.f3 Bc8 3.Bxf4 Ne6 4.dxe6 Qh4+ 5.Kg1 Rxf4 6.Qd5 > ± (1.00) depth: 10/27 00:00:03 2552kN >1...Bxh3 2.f3 Bc8 3.Bxf4 Ne6 4.dxe6 Qh4+ 5.Kg1 Rxf4 6.Qe3 > ± (1.09) depth: 11/31 00:00:07 5091kN >1...Bxh3-- > +- (1.41) depth: 12/32 00:00:22 16702kN >1...Bxh3 > +- (1.41) depth: 12/34 00:00:24 18532kN >1...f3 > ± (1.37) depth: 12/34 00:00:29 21596kN >1...f3 2.Bxg5 Qxg5 3.Rg1 Qf5 4.Qc3 Qf4+ 5.g3 Qf5 6.g4 > ± (1.16) depth: 12/36 00:00:38 28498kN >1...Nxh3 > ± (1.12) depth: 12/36 00:00:47 34730kN >1...Nxh3 2.gxh3 Qh4 3.Rh1 Qxh3+ 4.Kg1 Qg4+ 5.Kf1 Qf3 6.Rg1 > ± (1.06) depth: 12/36 00:00:50 37202kN >1...Nf3+ > ± (1.03) depth: 12/36 00:00:52 38577kN >1...Nf3+ 2.gxf3 Qh4 3.Rh1 Bxh3 4.c3 Rf6 5.Bxf4 Rxf4 6.Qe3 > = (0.25) depth: 12/36 00:00:53 39290kN >1...Nf3+ 2.gxf3 Qh4 3.Rh1 Bxh3 4.c3 Rf6 5.Bxf4 Rxf4 6.Qe3 > = (0.00) depth: 13/32 00:00:55 40746kN >1...Nf3+ 2.gxf3 Qh4 3.Rh1 Bxh3 4.c3 Rf6 5.Bxf4 Rxf4 6.Qe3 > = (0.00) depth: 14/38 00:01:04 47886kN >1...Nf3+! > = (-0.16) depth: 15/35 00:01:37 73480kN >1...Nf3+! 2.gxf3 Qh4 3.Rh1 Bxh3 4.Bxf4 Rxf4 5.Qe3 Rf6 6.Qd4 > µ (-0.84) depth: 15/39 00:02:08 97818kN > >(Young, 09.08.2000) It chose that move rapidly, but the evaluation shows that it is more a random glitch than a computer brilliancy. When it gets the eval right, then I will believe that the computer has made a brilliant move. It sees an advantage of less than one pawn, so it does not know how good the move is yet *or* why it should choose that one. It is rather impressive that the computer got to 15 plies in a minute and a half, and a hundred million nodes in two minutes though. Must be a pretty nice machine.
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