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Subject: Re: I don't think wmcc results is enough reliable, isn't it?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:56:14 08/25/00

Go up one level in this thread


On August 25, 2000 at 01:29:22, Uri Blass wrote:

>On August 25, 2000 at 01:17:06, Alvaro Polo wrote:
>
>>On August 24, 2000 at 23:17:53, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>
>>>On August 24, 2000 at 22:48:47, Michael Fuhrmann wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 24, 2000 at 22:01:39, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 24, 2000 at 18:53:53, Eran wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Different chess programs use different processor speed, and the results may not
>>>>>>be fair. If Junior uses Pentium III 1000 Mhz instead of 700 Mhz, Junior might be
>>>>>>a bit stronger and belong to the group of top chess programs, Shredder, Fritz,
>>>>>>and Nimzo. I assume that if all chess programs use the same processor speed
>>>>>>exactly, for instance Pentium III 1000 Mhz, the wmcc results will be enough
>>>>>>reliable and fair. Do you agree with it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Eran
>>>>>
>>>>>As for "fair", this is not a uniform platform tournament.  If you do a uniform
>>>>>platform tournament, you get "fair".  If you go to one that isn't, and you
>>>>>expect "fair", it's better to stay home, because it won't be.  It's not uniform
>>>>>platform.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you expect "reliable", even in a uniform platform tournament, you aren't
>>>>>going to get that, either.  If you deduce a perfectly accurate rating for each
>>>>>participant, and simulate the tournament a few dozen times, you'll get wildly
>>>>>different results.  The "best" program won't win every time.  The "best" program
>>>>>might not even finish in the top half.
>>>>>
>>>>>bruce
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sounds like there's no good reason for holding the event at all, since the
>>>>result doesn't tell us anything meaningful.
>>>
>>>Right.  There isn't a reason to hold the World Series, the Olympics, the World
>>>Cup, or any other sporting event, either.
>>>
>>
>>It is curious what you say. In plain chess (not computer chess), if there is a
>>tournement where Kasparov participates in, you can expect him to win. Sometimes
>>he wont, of course, but I don't think it is probable that he won't finish on the
>>top half. It looks like chess is much more reliable than computer chess. I
>>wonder why.
>
>If the difference in the rating between the first program and the other programs
>is big enough then you can be practically sure that the top program is going to
>finish in the top half and the same is for humans.
>
>Uri

I don't see how.  Try flipping a coin 5 times, and repeat it 100 times.  In
more than one of those 100 trials, you will get 5 heads or 5 tails... which is
statistically correct on one hand, and statistically impossible on the other.

If you play 10 tournaments in a row, the best program will tend to do better
overall.  But just one tournament?  Or just one game?  Too much statistical
variance.



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