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Subject: Re: Mate in 7 Question + Singular extension

Author: Howard Exner

Date: 18:03:51 01/09/98

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On January 09, 1998 at 17:45:31, Bruce Moreland wrote:

>
>On January 09, 1998 at 14:26:44, Howard Exner wrote:
>
>>r3rk2/ppq2pbQ/2p1b1p1/4p1B1/2P3P1/3P1B2/P3PPK1/1R5R w - - id"Seiriwan -
>>Sokolov,A"; bm Qxg7+;
>>
>>Is this an example of a singular extension mate theme?
>>Will this be difficult to solve as a Queen and rook are
>>sacrificed followed by the "quiet" Bf6?
>
>I don't know whether these mates are efficiently found with singular
>extension, that was just a nasty rumor that I started.
>
>I don't know if singular extension is good for anything.  The paper that
>I read originally about it claimed a pretty big benefit from this, but a
>subsequent paper claimed much more modest benefit, and there were
>caveats that the reason it might work for DT could have something to do
>with DT's search, which was pretty sloppy near the tips.
>
>Absolutely no offense to DT or DB or DT or Hsu or Campbell, but, I think
>the two statements taken with the largest number of grains of salt by
>this community in the last ten years are:
>
>1) Botvinnik had a working chess program.
>2) Singular extension is mythical and magic.
>
>I don't know of anyone who will make a statement of the form:  "I/We do
>singular extension, it helped us a lot, we proved to ourselves that it
>is a good thing, and for you guys who are curious, here is a position
>that we think it helps a lot in, and here is some other cool info
>involving lots of other interesting numbers, for instance, look how many
>more we get in the ECM suite with this!"
>
>If someone wants to make all or part of the above statement, I would be
>delighted to hear it.
>
>This problem is very hard for my program.  I do not know why.  I suspect
>it is hard because white goes down a tremendous amount of material and
>doesn't get it back immediately.  This is similar to Wac 141 (for me),
>although harder.  Mine is apparently vulnerable to this sort of thing.
>
>I bet other programs get it quickly.

I am always interested in the problems that program X finds quickly
while program Y struggles. It makes me curious as to what makes them
tick. Rebel 8 for example finds WAC 141 rather quickly but has a very
hard time finding this above mate in 7. I think it is the quiet move,
Bf6 that is the stumbling block for Rebel.

I'm not a programmer but follow with interest this recent Singular
extension thread. It sounds like a similar technique humans employ
of giving themselves two moves in a row to help determine tactical
candidate moves.



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