Author: Amir Ban
Date: 02:35:18 01/15/98
Go up one level in this thread
On January 14, 1998 at 21:18:23, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On January 14, 1998 at 16:53:06, Vincent Lejeune wrote: > >>I've red a book chess problem, and find the following position : >> >>[Event "?"] >>[Site "?"] >>[Date "??.??.????"] >>[Round "?"] >>[White "W"] >>[Black "B"] >>[Result "*"] >>[WhiteElo "?"] >>[BlackElo "?"] >>[FEN "8/7p/6pP/k4pP1/b1p1pP2/KpPpP3/1P1P4/7Q w - - 0 1"] >> >> >>and the book say : >> >>If it's white to moves, black are in zugzwang because after : >>1.Qd1 B moves 2.Qxc3 cxb3 3.Kxd3 , the 2 passed pawn win for white !!! >>I don't understand everything in the position (and I don't blame who >>don't understand like me ;) ). >> >>I look for someone who can analyse this position with a strong chess >>program... >> >>Thanks in advance. >> >>Vincent > >here's Crafty's analysis: > > depth time score variation (1) > 11-> 0.58 7.31 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Kc5 Qf2 Kb5 Qg3 > Kc5 Qg2 > 12 0.63 7.29 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Kc5 Qf2 Kb5 Qg3 > Kc5 Qg2 <HT> > 12-> 0.71 7.29 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Kc5 Qf2 Kb5 Qg3 > Kc5 Qg2 <HT> > 13 0.77 7.29 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Ka5 Qf2 Bd5 Qh2 > Bc6 Qh4 Kb5 Qf2 Kc5 <HT> > 13-> 0.92 7.29 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Ka5 Qf2 Bd5 Qh2 > Bc6 Qh4 Kb5 Qf2 Kc5 <HT> > 14 0.97 7.29 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Ka5 Qf2 Bd5 Qh2 > Bc6 Qh4 <HT> > 14-> 4.59 7.29 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Ka5 Qf2 Bd5 Qh2 > Bc6 Qh4 <HT> > 15 5.40 7.30 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Ka5 Qf2 Kb5 Qh2 > Kc5 Qh4 Bd5 Qg3 Bc6 Qf2 <HT> > 15-> 5.48 7.30 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Ka5 Qf2 Kb5 Qh2 > Kc5 Qh4 Bd5 Qg3 Bc6 Qf2 <HT> > 16 6.07 7.29 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Ka5 Qf2 Kb5 Qh2 > Ka5 Qh4 Kb5 Qf2 Kc5 Qg2 Kd5 > 16-> 26.65 7.29 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Ka5 Qf2 Kb5 Qh2 > Ka5 Qh4 Kb5 Qf2 Kc5 Qg2 Kd5 > 17 27.16 7.30 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Ka5 Qf2 Kb5 Qh2 > Ka5 Qh3 Kb5 Qg3 Kc5 Qh4 Bd5 Qf2 Kd6 > 17-> 28.09 7.30 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Ka5 Qf2 Kb5 Qh2 > Ka5 Qh3 Kb5 Qg3 Kc5 Qh4 Bd5 Qf2 Kd6 > 18 31.43 7.30 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Ka5 Qf2 Kb5 Qh2 > Ka5 Qh3 Kb5 Qh1 Kc5 Qg2 Bd5 Qg3 Kd6 > 18-> 34.79 7.30 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Ka5 Qf2 Kb5 Qh2 > Ka5 Qh3 Kb5 Qh1 Kc5 Qg2 Bd5 Qg3 Kd6 > 19 36.22 7.30 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Ka5 Qf2 Kb5 Qh2 > Ka5 Qh3 Bd5 Qg3 Ba8 Qf2 Bd5 Qg1 Kb5 > Qf2 Kc5 > 19-> 1:00 7.30 Qg2 Bc6 Qg3 Kb5 Qh4 Ka5 Qf2 Kb5 Qh2 > Ka5 Qh3 Bd5 Qg3 Ba8 Qf2 Bd5 Qg1 Kb5 > Qf2 Kc5 >certainly seems to be winning... You mean because black looks at the score and resigns ? This position looks to me truely unsolvable, tactically or positionally. The main problem is that even after the sacrifice on b3 it's a long way to seeing a win (I am taking the book's word on it, it's not obvious to me). I think the only hope to solve here is if we are able to assign a plus score to the position after Qxb3. If we have this, we still need the hash to conclude that shuffling the queen is a draw, which doesn't look easy either. Just offhand, I don't see any basis for having a plus score for the Q sac on b3. Such positions with the same piece & pawn configuration are almost always a dead loss for white. Maybe we can break the problem into two easier parts: - Who sees a plus score for Qxb3 ? - Who sees a draw score for only shuffling the queen ? Amir
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