Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Rebel-v/d Wiel on P3 866 MHz

Author: David Rasmussen

Date: 07:09:59 01/06/01

Go up one level in this thread


On January 06, 2001 at 00:53:10, Uri Blass wrote:

>On January 05, 2001 at 23:51:21, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On January 05, 2001 at 14:28:21, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On January 05, 2001 at 14:03:57, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 05, 2001 at 07:50:42, Mark Schreiber wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In the match with v/d Wiel, Rebel is running on P3 866 MHz. Using a faster
>>>>>computer would be an improvemnt. Maybe a P4 1.5 GHz. They could also improve
>>>>>Rebel to run on dual or multi processor like Junior. The Junior that ran on an 8
>>>>>processor at Dortmund would clobber v/d Wiel. At Dortmund, Junior performed at
>>>>>Fide 2700.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I doubt _any_ program will "clobber" him.  Speed isn't the only issue when you
>>>>play a computer-savvy GM.  If your program has a hole (and all current programs
>>>>have many of them) then speed isn't going to help a bit if the GM knows what he
>>>>is doing.
>>>
>>>I believe that speed is going to help because the holes of chess programs can be
>>>covered by deeper search in part of the cases.
>>>
>>>There are positions when speed will practically not help but getting this
>>>positions may be prevented if the computer is faster.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>We've been waiting for this to happen for 30 years.  We aren't there yet.  I
>>don't think we will be there in another 30 years.  The holes _must_ be filled
>>or the programs are going to have problems with anti-computer humans _forever_
>>no matter how fast they go.  DB1 should have proven that.  it was 200X faster
>>than the fastest program of today.  And it fell into the same problems in the
>>first Kasparov match.
>
>It did not prove it.
>
>Kasparov is a better player than Van der Wiel and it is possible that DB1 could
>win against Van der Wiel.
>
>I also believe that the programs of today have better positional knowledge than
>DB1 and better pruning rules that help them to search deeper so the 200x faster
>may be misleading.
>
>Here is a position(from game 5 of the match) when I believe that DB1 made a
>tactical mistake(I did not try to prove it by a tree but it is my impression).
>
>[D]3r2k1/p4bp1/5q1p/8/3Npp2/1PQ5/P2R1PPP/6K1 w - - 0 1
>
>White played g3 when I believe that the only move is Ne2
>The tactics is quite(white has a lot of possibilities in every move) and this is
>the reason that the singular extensions could not help DB1.
>
>I think that it may be interesting to know how much time do programs need to
>find Ne2 and what is the depth that programs of today need to see significant
>difference between g3 and Ne2.
>
>I guess that a lot of program may find Ne2 in some minutes(they will not see
>tactical difference between Ne2 and g3 but they will see a positional
>difference)
>
>I guess that part of them may see a difference of at least 1/2 pawn if you give
>them 3*200=600 minutes on fast hardware(I mean a difference of at least 1/2 pawn
>between their score and their score if they investigate only g3 at the same
>depth).
>
>A difference of 1/2 pawn means that they will not see that g3 is a losing move
>but they will see big positional reasons not to play it.
>
>It will be interesting to do the experiment.
>
>Uri

Chezzz locks on Ne2 after 44 secs on my machine, and it never considers g3.

It hasn't found an especially good score, though. -0.20 for white, so I will let
it search for a full 10 hours or so.



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.