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Subject: Re: New SSDF-list

Author: Moritz Berger

Date: 13:43:10 02/25/98

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On February 25, 1998 at 13:07:04, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:

>But your idea is false. The difference in speed between Fritz 5 with 20
>MB tables and 100 MB tables is not greater than 35%, or some 20 or 25
>Elo points. You like better a Fritz 5 playing with 20 MB? OK, say it is
>10 or 15 points weaker than with SSDF's 44 MB. That's all.

Aaaah ... BUT: Fritz does not only run faster, but "smarter". I have
observed on several occasions when running testsets that Fritz took way
longer with 98 MB than with 12 MB, extending on certain moves for
minutes and minutes that Fritz/12MB considered only for a second and
then abandoned. This suggests more accurate information from "non
polluted" hash tables, forcing the extended search in a critical
position.

a quote from the chessbase.usa site:

> On a PC with 64MB of RAM you would be limited to around 45MB of hash tables. > In comparison with our 100MB, Fritz would be roughly 40-50 Elo points weaker > in tournament games.

The 35% speedup from 20 to 100 MB you gave is correct also in my
experience, but don't forget that there's more to it than just speed.
Hiarcs 6, e.g. doesn't show any speedup at 40/120 tc with this hash
table increase ...

To all those who think that hash tables don't matter: Don't forget that
Fritz is about the fastest program around, easily filling up 10 MB hash
tables in 10 second on my P233MMX. Even at Blitz, using 100 MB instead
of 15 MB gave me a speedup from 20s to 18s in one position.

One more word about "fair SSDF testing conditions":

The SSDF tested Fritz mostly on machines with 8 MB RAM: Subtract 4 MB
for Windows, 3 MB for the Fritz GUI and you are left with about
512-1024KB hash tables for Fritz. Small wonder that Fritz made some
peculiar moves with a 100-fold "oversaturated" hash table ... No
replacement policy in the world could remedy this ... I guess that the
hash table limit alone was responsible that Fritz ran at 25% of the
speed it could have achieved on the same machine with e.g. 32 MB hash
tables. And don't forget the "accuracy" issue ...

Just for fun, I tested Fritz 4.01 at 40/120 time controls on 2 P166
machines(remember, the SSDF mostly used the initial 4.00 release with
its well known engine and tablebase bugs):

It scored
51% vs. Hiarcs 6/Fritz engine/identical opening positions (40 games)
50% vs. Rebel 8 (29 games)
60+% vs. M-Chess 5 (20 games)
etc.

I do not question the motives of ChessBase to make sure this time that
Fritz will get reasonable hardware (remember, Frizt 4 was rated 2285 on
P90 when it entered the list !!!!). RAM prices are such that 64 MB of
any kind of RAM (SDRAM, EDO, you name it) can be had for about $125. I
do not think therefore, that when testing a program's playing strength
giving it a 64 MB machine is unreasonable (just figure the total price
you paid for that machine in relation to such a moderate RAM upgrade).


Moritz



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