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Subject: Re: Kramnik interview

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 12:51:52 04/30/01

Go up one level in this thread


On April 30, 2001 at 15:49:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On April 30, 2001 at 13:58:20, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On April 30, 2001 at 11:10:29, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On April 30, 2001 at 10:15:16, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 30, 2001 at 10:01:09, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 30, 2001 at 07:22:24, Alvaro Polo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hello all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In a recent interview Kramnik states that "We are in a very interesting phase,
>>>>>>when the strength of the best GMs and that of the best chess engines run by the
>>>>>>best processors are about equal."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I know that this point (machines being GM strenght or nor) has been debated
>>>>>>again and again and I don't intend to post a troll. I would just like to know if
>>>>>>the consensus now among chess programmers is wether Kramnik is right or not. For
>>>>>>instance, I remember Bob Hyatt saying that computers are really 2450, etc. But
>>>>>>software evolves, CPU power evolves and perhaps now there is agreement that
>>>>>>machines are finally GM strenght?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Alvaro Polo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I personally think my estimate is still pretty close.  Computers have two
>>>>>serious problems:
>>>>>
>>>>>1.  opening books.  They depend on a human to "play the game" of choosing good
>>>>>and bad openings.  This leaves them highly vulnerable to opening preparation and
>>>>>traps.  Particularly when you practice against one copy and then play another
>>>>>copy which doesn't have the 'learning' from the practice games.
>>>>
>>>>I think it is unfair to use this way to decide about the level of chess
>>>>programs.
>>>>
>>>>I am more interested to know the results of programs when the opponent cannot
>>>>get a copy of the program.
>>>
>>>Then don't give them a copy.  But what happens in a 24+ game match?  The
>>>computer does well at the beginning, but by the end has horrendous problems
>>>as the human discovers its weaknesses.
>>>
>>>you only have to watch on ICC to see this happen against _all_ programs, by
>>>top IM and GM players...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>When Deep thought and Deep blue played against humans the opponents could not
>>>>get a copy of the program so I see no reason to let them to get a copy of the
>>>>programs before the game.
>>>
>>>You don't need a copy of the program to bust it.  You only need to prepare
>>>openings that against _other_ programs produce advantages.  Some traps are
>>>quite easy to spring when you know your opponent is a computer and will likely
>>>take any pawn that is offered.
>>
>>It is not so simple
>>
>>Junior sacrificed material in the games against Fritz and it is not going to
>>take any pawn that is offered if it plays against kramnik.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>So you don't think it has any discernable weaknesses?

It has weaknesses but getting to positions that you can take advantage of the
weaknesses is not simple.

Uri



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