Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 08:55:15 08/24/01
Go up one level in this thread
On August 23, 2001 at 14:36:16, Dann Corbit wrote:
>On August 23, 2001 at 14:26:01, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>
>>I got the following anonymous message in my mailbox
>>from another amateur:
>>
>>>>>
>>dat van vincent over openingsboeken op CCC gaat idd over deepfritz.ctg, goliath
>>gebruikte dat namelijk ook tijdens Leiden '01. Die had dus keurig deepfritz.ctg
>>in zijn interface staan, maar dat verborg ie telkens nadat ie de interface
>>opstarte
>>>>>
>>
>>Bah! This is the kind of crap why I don't enjoy computerchess
>>anymore.
>
>Use of commercial books is old hat. You will find that quite a few amateur
>programs use the fritz 4 book, and have done so openly for many years.
>
>If it is not spelled out as a rules violation, then it is not wrong to do so.
Let's be clear here
a) if someone is lying then that pisses me off (as the truth sometimes
is so simplistic to see)
b) if someone WINS because of a certain book which he simply
only cut'n pasted then that pisses me even more off.
If someone uses either
shredder5, fritz4, genius5 or whatever similar book, then i won't complain
soon, because those books aren't so called 'killerbooks' or already
outdated by now.
Starting with Alexander Kure (fritz6, deepfritz and nimzo books) a new
generation of books came onto the market which simply surgically annihilates
and refutes all lines from automatical generated books.
Note Noomen also does a great job here, but the real difference
between Noomen and Kure is that the Noomen book isn't put onto a CD
which everyone can buy.
Of course the Kure book only works with the chessbase GUI, so things
are pretty easy.
Writing over a few lines by hand is a different thing. this is labour
intensive, and hard to prevent. The real bad thing is that from those
5.5 points from Gromit at least 4 of them are because of Kure, because
it is not bad in endgame (and positions where material has gone off),
but without Kure it would never have gotten into such positions.
Note i don't want to complain too much about Gromit. Best thing is
to prevent this thing from happening in the future.
a) otherwise most people who make their own book feel like they
are busy doing something useless
b) It is simply unfair
>It probably *should* be specified one way or the other. I doubt that it has
>been or the problem would not arise.
It has to do with general stupidity too and the fact that outlaws
count on that people who try to keep the law are in this case professors
who are dead lazy and who know themselves shit from books or whatever
happens in computerchess, but especially the outlaws count on that
walking on the edges from what is legal and considered not fair is
not actively enforced by the tournament director.
Note in this case the tournament director did get a protest from me,
but as i told him a general protest for the future (with no effects
on what happened in the past) is going to get shipped.
Of course i know how germans think: "let's do it we might get a world
champ". In general the only dudes that used commercial books last
few years in world champs without clearly having asked permission to
the authors were all germans.
I remember SOS who openly won the amateur title using a Kure book.
Note he didn't hide a thing and only after the world champs was over
he started realizing that the majority of his points were made by him
because of this.
This year the amateur winner is no different and in i-csvn tournament
the program Goliath was also using something called 'deepfritz.ctg' though
clearly some lines were modified (as behind the deepfritz.ctg book he
also used a hand made book).
This year SOS used the shredder5 book and started with 0.5 out of 4
at the tournament.
Also amazing was the draw out of book from Isichess versus SOS.
The only engines from which i can remember in the worldchamps that they
ran under a different dudes interface:
- Gromitchess (deepfritz)
- Goliath (deepfritz)
- SOS (shredder)
the first one i suspected using deepfritz.ctg and a few useless
additions.
The second is always suspected but was warned after i-csvn tournament
SOS openly used shredder5 book, but joined as a semi-professional and
is getting sold together with shredder5 and definitely was using
a that bad book (necchi + automatic generated crap) that no one
would care. in fact most are very happy if you use a shredder5 book
as it's complete suicide to use an automatic generated book and Necchi
should be fired by Stefan Meyer Kahlen anyway.
What do i need to say more about this point, 3 out of 3 is a 100% score?
>Let's congratulate the winners, and put a bit of effort into improving the
>system. Perhaps we can send email to Beal or whoever is in charge respecting
>requested changes for the future.
v/d Herik in this case.
>At any rate, an entertaining tournament as always. Shredder has once again
>risen to the top, and certainly deserves every accolade.
>Deep Junior was very impressive also.
Junior7 plays like major shit. I'm amazed that they won the world title
by such a kind of swindling play. In fact it's quite funny they won it,
as it shows how much you can reach by a bit of consequent swindling.
8 out of 9 is a major score!
>And Gromit has obviously made enormous strides.
???
I only remember they started progressing when they ran under
chessbase environment.
If they wouldn't have had a completely strategically winning position
against me (from computer perspective, though objectively it
was ok for white), i would have completely annihilated them!
Idem for many others.
We do not know how they play if they have to play on their own!
We only know that SOS who played with a weak book this year started
with 0.5 out of 4.
>Round congratulations to all involved, and many successful tournaments in the
>future.
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