Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: obvious example

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 06:12:59 10/03/01

Go up one level in this thread


On October 02, 2001 at 04:54:13, Bruce Moreland wrote:

>On October 01, 2001 at 00:36:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 30, 2001 at 14:47:21, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>
>>>On September 29, 2001 at 14:54:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 29, 2001 at 10:41:37, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Super-linear speedups are "probably" impossible but so far I did not see that
>>>>>they are "provably" impossible. I would settle with "They are believed to be
>>>>>impossible".
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Miguel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>They simply _are_ impossible.  Unless you believe in perpetual
>>>>motion, infinite compression, a fire that will burn forever, etc.
>>>
>>>Take a human who can move a 200-pound box, but only by scraping it along the
>>>ground.  Compute the time it takes him to move 10 such boxes 100 yards.
>>>
>>>Assume that two humans can move a 200-pound box more easily.  Can they move a
>>>200-pound box more than twice as fast as one human?  Would this violate laws
>>>against perpetual motion?  Of course not.  It is perfectly valid to consider
>>>working in parallel rather than working serially.  The mechanics of the task
>>>might change, resulting in much increased efficiency -- they can lift the box
>>>off the ground.
>>
>>
>>I think that after you think about this example, you will see the flaw.
>>Lifting the box off the ground takes _more_ effort.  So the two people are
>>doing _more_ work in a given period of time than two people pushing two boxes
>>at the same time.  The ancient Egyptions found that dragging was better than
>>lifting.  :)
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Two workers cooperating to perform a task, do not *have* to go less than or
>>>equal to the speed of two workers, each of whom does exactly half of a task that
>>>can be fairly divided in two.
>>>
>>>There exists the opportunity for synergy.
>>>
>>>The argument that the above violates the prohibition against perpetual motion is
>>>fallacious.
>>>
>>>bruce
>>
>>
>>Not after you think about it.  If two people work and each of them moves 5
>>blocks, then they do no more work than the 1 person did moving 10.  But they
>>did it in twice the time.  If they _lift_ the block _and_ move it, they are
>>doing _more_ work per unit of time.  They should have moved the blocks
>>faster one at a time, but they were taking it easy...
>>
>> A computer can't do that.
>
>You can't possibly be arguing that there is nothing that N (N>1) people can't do
>in less than 1/N the time that it takes one person.
>
>I was trying to find an obvious example.  If you don't like that one, I'm sure
>there is another one.
>
>bruce

Obvious example is killermoves. It improves branching factor too.





This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.