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Subject: Re: New crap statement ? Perpetuum mobile

Author: Bruce Moreland

Date: 01:54:13 10/02/01

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On October 01, 2001 at 00:36:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On September 30, 2001 at 14:47:21, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>
>>On September 29, 2001 at 14:54:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On September 29, 2001 at 10:41:37, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:
>>
>>>>Super-linear speedups are "probably" impossible but so far I did not see that
>>>>they are "provably" impossible. I would settle with "They are believed to be
>>>>impossible".
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Miguel
>>>
>>>
>>>They simply _are_ impossible.  Unless you believe in perpetual
>>>motion, infinite compression, a fire that will burn forever, etc.
>>
>>Take a human who can move a 200-pound box, but only by scraping it along the
>>ground.  Compute the time it takes him to move 10 such boxes 100 yards.
>>
>>Assume that two humans can move a 200-pound box more easily.  Can they move a
>>200-pound box more than twice as fast as one human?  Would this violate laws
>>against perpetual motion?  Of course not.  It is perfectly valid to consider
>>working in parallel rather than working serially.  The mechanics of the task
>>might change, resulting in much increased efficiency -- they can lift the box
>>off the ground.
>
>
>I think that after you think about this example, you will see the flaw.
>Lifting the box off the ground takes _more_ effort.  So the two people are
>doing _more_ work in a given period of time than two people pushing two boxes
>at the same time.  The ancient Egyptions found that dragging was better than
>lifting.  :)
>
>
>
>>
>>Two workers cooperating to perform a task, do not *have* to go less than or
>>equal to the speed of two workers, each of whom does exactly half of a task that
>>can be fairly divided in two.
>>
>>There exists the opportunity for synergy.
>>
>>The argument that the above violates the prohibition against perpetual motion is
>>fallacious.
>>
>>bruce
>
>
>Not after you think about it.  If two people work and each of them moves 5
>blocks, then they do no more work than the 1 person did moving 10.  But they
>did it in twice the time.  If they _lift_ the block _and_ move it, they are
>doing _more_ work per unit of time.  They should have moved the blocks
>faster one at a time, but they were taking it easy...
>
> A computer can't do that.

You can't possibly be arguing that there is nothing that N (N>1) people can't do
in less than 1/N the time that it takes one person.

I was trying to find an obvious example.  If you don't like that one, I'm sure
there is another one.

bruce



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