Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 08:18:35 07/16/02
Go up one level in this thread
On July 16, 2002 at 05:40:03, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >On July 16, 2002 at 05:08:57, Russell Reagan wrote: > >>I think there are quite a few good ways to deter cheating in an online event. >>You could require that the engine have been made public for 6 months prior (or >>some amount of time), and check it against Crafty or other strong open source >>engines. > >This is totally unreasonable for commercial or experimental engines. >Moreover, an engine can and will change A LOT in just 6 months. Not >being able to play with your latest and greatest would be a major pain. > >>Surely working together we could devise a nearly automated system for >>such a thing. Maybe comparing binary strands in the executable, comparing move >>selection, and so on. I'm sure there are people who would be able to offer lots >>more methods who have done this kind of thing in the past. >>As for someone firing up Fritz and competing, I think it wouldn't be >>unreasonable for the organization running the event to have copies of all of the >>decent commercial engines, and compare outputs. > >It would be very easy to cheat and not be detected by such a naive scheme. > >>I think that if someone is dedicated and talented enough to create a modified >>engine and work on it enough so that there are no similarities between it and >>it's original engine that they either modified it enough to call their own, or >>they are talented enough at code hacking that they are going to be able to cheat >>in person as well as online. I'm sure there is some talented person out there >>who could hack Fritz and use it at an event in person. > >The problem is that in a real event you have a just as talented person in >front of you keeping a very close eye to what's happening on the screen. > >>Do you think that if the organizing group had some method of detecting clones >>that there would be any more room for cheating in an online event rather than in >>an "in person" event? If some dark horse comes out of nowhere to win, don't you >>think people will start to wonder and look into it? > >Sure, but at that point it's already too late. > >>Regardless of all of that, >>they would still have to compete int he semi-final match and finals match to win >>anything. There could be more rigorous testing done in person, and if a cheater >>is caught in person, then the next highest finisher gets bumped up and takes his >>or her rightful spot. > >Again, too late. Moreover, you could simply not cheat in the live games. >Qualifying for the semis might be enough. > >>Perhaps you could simply throw out all of those games and >>reseed. Some acceptable method could be developed for handling this. I just >>think that if someone is talented enough to either modify the source enough or >>the executable enough to make it not detectable from a binary comparison for >>similar binary patterns, and to alter it enough to make it play unique moves, >>then that person won't be caught online or at WCCC or anywhere else. > >There are many ways to cheat which don't involve something as complex. > >For example, overriding your engines time-usage. Happened in the latest >CCT! If done at crucial moments it can be decisive. > >Try pulling it off in a live event. Much harder. It has happened in live events as well. I video-taped it happening in a game against me several years ago. I caught it because several of us had seen this person doing it in previous tournaments. For every one "caught" how many are "missed"? I certainly doubt we caught it _all_... > >-- >GCP
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