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Subject: Re: "World" Championship in North America ... Semi-Formal Announcement.

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 08:18:35 07/16/02

Go up one level in this thread


On July 16, 2002 at 05:40:03, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:

>On July 16, 2002 at 05:08:57, Russell Reagan wrote:
>
>>I think there are quite a few good ways to deter cheating in an online event.
>>You could require that the engine have been made public for 6 months prior (or
>>some amount of time), and check it against Crafty or other strong open source
>>engines.
>
>This is totally unreasonable for commercial or experimental engines.
>Moreover, an engine can and will change A LOT in just 6 months. Not
>being able to play with your latest and greatest would be a major pain.
>
>>Surely working together we could devise a nearly automated system for
>>such a thing. Maybe comparing binary strands in the executable, comparing move
>>selection, and so on. I'm sure there are people who would be able to offer lots
>>more methods who have done this kind of thing in the past.
>>As for someone firing up Fritz and competing, I think it wouldn't be
>>unreasonable for the organization running the event to have copies of all of the
>>decent commercial engines, and compare outputs.
>
>It would be very easy to cheat and not be detected by such a naive scheme.
>
>>I think that if someone is dedicated and talented enough to create a modified
>>engine and work on it enough so that there are no similarities between it and
>>it's original engine that they either modified it enough to call their own, or
>>they are talented enough at code hacking that they are going to be able to cheat
>>in person as well as online. I'm sure there is some talented person out there
>>who could hack Fritz and use it at an event in person.
>
>The problem is that in a real event you have a just as talented person in
>front of you keeping a very close eye to what's happening on the screen.
>
>>Do you think that if the organizing group had some method of detecting clones
>>that there would be any more room for cheating in an online event rather than in
>>an "in person" event? If some dark horse comes out of nowhere to win, don't you
>>think people will start to wonder and look into it?
>
>Sure, but at that point it's already too late.
>
>>Regardless of all of that,
>>they would still have to compete int he semi-final match and finals match to win
>>anything. There could be more rigorous testing done in person, and if a cheater
>>is caught in person, then the next highest finisher gets bumped up and takes his
>>or her rightful spot.
>
>Again, too late. Moreover, you could simply not cheat in the live games.
>Qualifying for the semis might be enough.
>
>>Perhaps you could simply throw out all of those games and
>>reseed. Some acceptable method could be developed for handling this. I just
>>think that if someone is talented enough to either modify the source enough or
>>the executable enough to make it not detectable from a binary comparison for
>>similar binary patterns, and to alter it enough to make it play unique moves,
>>then that person won't be caught online or at WCCC or anywhere else.
>
>There are many ways to cheat which don't involve something as complex.
>
>For example, overriding your engines time-usage. Happened in the latest
>CCT! If done at crucial moments it can be decisive.
>
>Try pulling it off in a live event. Much harder.

It has happened in live events as well.  I video-taped it happening in a
game against me several years ago.  I caught it because several of us had
seen this person doing it in previous tournaments.  For every one "caught"
how many are "missed"?  I certainly doubt we caught it _all_...

>
>--
>GCP



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