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Subject: Re: interesting idea

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 12:41:41 09/06/02

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On September 06, 2002 at 15:28:09, Sune Fischer wrote:

>On September 06, 2002 at 14:38:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 06, 2002 at 14:17:59, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>
>>>On September 06, 2002 at 11:53:13, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>I have posted the raw data logs, the "cooked data" that I extracted from the
>>>>logs, and the speedup tables (those for Martin last nite).  It might be
>>>>interesting to take the cb.c program I also posted and change the speedup
>>>>format to show 3 decimel places (I used 2 as Martin had suggested that would
>>>>be better.)
>>>>
>>>>It would be interesting to run the program with 1, 2 and 3 decimel place
>>>>accuracy, and let everyone look at the three tables and decide which one
>>>>_really_ provides the most useful information.  I'll bet everyone likes
>>>>.1 better than .11 because is .01 really significant?  Or is it just random
>>>>noise?
>>>
>>>To a numerical scientist (as I'm sure you know) the numbers 1.8 and 1.80 are not
>>>identical, 1.80 is ten times more accurate, and that is a powerful statement in
>>>itself.
>>>To produce such a number you need to (a) run a larger experiment and do some
>>>statistics to get an average or (b) get some better and probably a lot more
>>>expensive equipment (higher resolution mass-spectrometers, or whatever the
>>>situation may call for), though in this case (a) seems like the only option.
>>>
>>
>>
>>(a) was the course I took in my dissertation, but I had a 30 processor
>>sequent that was basically "mine" for several months so running thousands
>>of tests was not impossible.
>>
>>However, doesn't that leave the data open to the same criticism as the data
>>in my dts JICCA article?  (that the data is not "raw")??  Because it will
>>be an average, and that will make it look artificial...
>>
>>So back we go again?
>
>Sorry, I'm not fully up to speed here because I haven't read all of the threads,
>so my comment was more of a general nature :)
>
>But I'd say it depends on what you want to show, if you have bunch of positions
>that you want to know the speedup for, and you know that every time you run it
>you get something sligthly different. Then, you have no choice but to roundoff
>to lose a few of the inaccurate digits, or alternatively do additional work to
>make sure you get the digits right.
>
>There seems to be little point in using a number of 1.983432 for a speedup, if
>the next run will produce 1.9348284 and the next 1.96347823 etc., it looks
>rather silly doesn't it :)
>
>Personally I would rather be presented with a clean average number of 1.94, or
>even 1.9 or 2.0.
>
>>I've always used "averages" but for the DTS paper it was simply impossible.
>>You might Call someone up like say "united computing" in texas and ask what
>>they would have charged for a few months time on a dedicated C90.  :)
>
>That is a dilemma, of course if you have no grasp what so ever on how much the
>error is, you have a problem. So to be safe, it is better to use less digits ;)
>
>Anyway, this is all something that can be read in any introductury data analysis
>book, here is something I found on google:
>
>"From the mathematical standpoint, the precision of a number resulting from
>measurement depends upon the number of decimal places; that is, a larger number
>of decimal places means a smaller probable error. In 2.3 inches the probable
>error is 0.05 inch, since 2.3 actually lies somewhere between 2.25 and 2.35. In
>1.426 inches there is a much smaller probable error of 0.0005 inch. If we add
>2.300 + 1.426 and get an answer in thousandths, the answer, 3.726 inches, would
>appear to be precise to thousandths; but this is not true since there was a
>probable error of .05 in one of the addends. Also 2.300 appears to be precise to
>thousandths but in this example it is precise only to tenths. It is evident that
>the precision of a sum is no greater than the precision of the least precise
>addend. It can also be shown that the precision of a difference is no greater
>than the less precise number compared.
>
>To add or subtract numbers of different orders, all numbers should first be
>rounded off to the order of the least precise number. In the foregoing example,
>1.426 should be rounded to tenths-that is, 1.4."
>
>http://www.tpub.com/math1/7b.htm
>
>(some great semantics at the very bottom:)
>
>-S.

Chapter three:

Bob, how you could say that speed-up was measured? Isn't it a factor and
therefore calculated?  come back to my first statement!

Rolf Tueschen



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