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Subject: Re: Time control in the CM9000 Christensen Match

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 10:46:22 10/02/02

Go up one level in this thread


On October 01, 2002 at 12:11:26, Uri Blass wrote:

Ok so you are saying now that 2 minutes a move is giving a better
play than 3 minutes a move?

If so why aren't all GMs beating computers at 1 minute whole game?

I hope you see the problem?

>On October 01, 2002 at 08:43:56, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On September 30, 2002 at 12:28:29, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On September 30, 2002 at 11:55:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 29, 2002 at 23:55:57, Rick Terry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 29, 2002 at 23:16:53, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On September 29, 2002 at 16:33:50, Rick Terry wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is the time control in this Match comparable to 40/2 or to the Current Fide
>>>>>>>Standard time control?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not even close...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the time control would have made a difference in the results,
>>>>>Larry simply pushed too hard in several of the games, where he should have taken
>>>>>the draw.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I simply didn't like the time control.  It was basically "two minutes a
>>>>move, period" whichi is not too fast, but it is _way_ different for a GM to
>>>>play that way.  IE if you watch a GM play, he plays a bunch of moves almost
>>>>instantly, but at some point will go into a "deep think" and burn a lot of
>>>>time mapping out long-term strategy.  This time control prevented that,
>>>>which makes it less appealing.
>>>
>>>only in part of the cases.
>>>If the GM plays relatively fast in the opening then he has time for deep think
>>>later.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>This is complete nonsense what you state.
>>I'm very used to 40 in 2. GMs even more. The bulk of the time
>>you use is the first part of the game, NOT the second half as you
>>indicate.
>
>It depends on the game.
>There are cases at GM level when the first 20 moves are known theory
>so the GM can use less than 1 minute for them.
>
>
>>
>>Here is what happens for example in what i found was an easy game,
>>it was played last saturday:
>>
>>starting with 2:00 both players. a minus sign means no time used
>>for that move or less than 1 minute.
>>
>>white: Vincent Diepeveen (2291, FM)
>>black: Jeroen Piket      (2646, GM)
>>
>>1.e4 , c5     -,-
>>2.nf3,nc6     -,-
>>3.d4,cd4      -,-
>>4.nd4,nf6     -,-
>>5.nc3,e5      -,-
>>6.ndb5,h6     -,1:58
>>7.Be3,d6      1:47 , 1:42
>>8.Nd5,Nd5     1:44 , 1:40 (piket was talking elsewhere in the room and didn't
>>                          hurry to get back)
>>9.ed,Ne7      -,-
>>10.c3,Nf3     -,-
>>11.Bxa7,Bd7   1:41,1:39
>>12.a4,Be7     1:30,1:38
>>13.a5,O-O     1:27,1:37
>>14.Bb6,Qc8       -,1:24
>>15.Be2,Bd8    1:10,1:01
>>16.Bd8(D),Qd8 1:07,-
>>17.b4,Qg5     1:06,0:58
>>18.g3,e4      1:01,0:40
>>19.O-O,Rac8   0:53,0:34
>>20.Ra3,e3     0:42,0:29
>>21.f4,Qg6     0:38,0:28
>>22.Nd4,Ng3    0:33,0:18.50
>>23.hg,Qg3     -,-
>>24.kh1,qh3    -,-
>>25.Kg1,Qg3    -,-
>>26.Kh1,       -
>>1/2-1/2
>>
>>and after some thoughts whether he could still win
>>somehow he looked at me and it was a draw.
>>
>>so according to 2 minutes a move GM Piket would have forfeited at move
>>7 already.
>
>I am sure that in that case he was not using the same time for move 7.
>
> Also add to that that you forget the most important aspect
>>of time management.
>>
>>Suppose my opponent has only 1 minute left and after his move he has 3
>>minutes left. Each move 2 minutes added.
>>
>>It means that if i do a very unclear move now that he'll forfeit or make
>>a blunder. He HAS to decide within 3 minutes.
>>
>>I can give you some statistics here.
>>
>>I have personally a 100% score in unclear positions (even with pawns
>>less) against opponents with just 5 minutes left and who needed to make
>>10 moves within that time.
>
>having 5 minutes to make the last 10 moves is a lot worse than having
>2 minutes per move.
>
>I believe that a lot of players do the mistake of illogical time management by
>getting to a big time trouble and I expect the increasment to help them to use
>time better.
>
>I think that having less than 1 minute per move in unclear position is an
>evidence  for a bad time management.
>
>A player should not let it to happen.
>It is easier to say it than to do it and there are players who fail to do it
>again and again.
>
>I believe that time control of 2 minutes per game+2 minutes per move could be
>better for these players.
>>
>>Now imagine they have to do 5 very difficult moves in a row each move
>>just 2 minutes!
>>
>>No one makes it. The level of the games goes down hundreds of points,
>>becuase *no one* is going, unless it's a fool, to take the risk of
>>just having a few minutes left.
>
>>
>>With 40 in 2 you have 2 hours. That's already hard enough in some cases.
>>
>>But time management at that level is a LOT easier than time management
>>in 2 minutes added each move or 40 60.
>
>No
>I think that time management is easier in 2+2.
>I think that part of the players play better at 2+2 than 120/40 and in another
>part of the cases it is the opposite but I do not think that there is a big
>difference in the level of play.
>
>If you know theory then it may be a good idea to go for long theoretical
>lines against programs in that case.
>
>Uri



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