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Subject: Re: Human flexibility versus computers

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 14:17:29 10/06/02

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On October 06, 2002 at 17:02:15, Roy Eassa wrote:

>On October 06, 2002 at 16:53:46, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>
>>On October 06, 2002 at 16:26:17, Ingo Althofer wrote:
>>
>>>In game 2 against program Fritz GM Kramnik has impressively shown how humans can
>>>adopt to computer opponents and how helpful such flexibility is. I am firmly
>>>convinced that Kramnik had this opening on the board in his preparation, and
>>>that 9.Kf1 was fully intended to throw Fritz out of its book. And very likely
>>>Kramnik had already seen Fritz' dubious moves 12...Bf8 and 13...b4 on the
>>>monitor in his camp before the match. (Remember: Kramnik had the current Fritz
>>>version already a long time for sparring purposes.)
>>
>>Let me just state my opposing opinion. I have no quotes from Kramnik or his
>>helpers, but I'm sure that Kramnik does not need such preparations. He didn't
>>know the specific play for this line, but he learned how Fritz reacted in
>>certain positions after the exchange of Q. I am 100% sure that he did not copy a
>>game from his training.
>>
>
>
>How can you be 100% sure?  Even I am only 99.9% sure!  :-)

At first I want to apologize for 1 empty post and a double one. But I had a
crash after 11 hours without re-booting.

Of course you are right. I took - as usual here - 67% for 100%. :)


>
>
>>
>>
>>>By the way: Bf8 was not an isolated Fritz blunder but was also for instance on a
>>>narrow rank 2 in the proposals of Hiarcs...
>>>
>>>Some spectators may now have the feeling that Kramnik's dry style makes the
>>>match less interesting.
>>
>>
>>I don't know what you understand under "dry style" but for me his style is not
>>dry at all.
>>
>
>
>It's dry in the (good) sense that he does not take unnecessary risks (like
>Christiansen did).

Pity. I had a different impression. For me this game is a masterpiece. Not based
on omissions but on a clear and beautiful demonstration of chess. For me Kramnik
shows exactly what he had said in the interviews about what chess is. I had the
impression during the game that Kramnik spoke "Now, do you understand what I'm
creating here? I try to play beyond the realms of the machine. Afterwards people
will say that I had prepared all the moves, but I didn't, I play this way
because I've understood the play of FRITZ. So I'm doing nothing different here
to human chess. Only, against my human coillegues with Elo like Fritz I could
never dare to play like that."



>
>
>>
>>
>>>But
>>>
>>>(i) The more dry Kramnik is acting now the more fireworks we will see from
>>>Kasparov in December. In his hot temper Kasparov will try to demonstrate how
>>>superior his chess is to that of Kramnik. So, have some patience.
>>
>>
>>Don't you worry. Kramnik showed the highest possible chess against computers. He
>>played normal chess, no anti-computer chess. And he relied on his superior
>>understanding of chess. BTW something you or me for instance could never produce
>>with or without computer help! Because here it is not just the idea or some
>>technique, the whole game is a masterpiece of chess art with computer as
>>opponent!
>>
>
>
>I think Kramnik's "normal" chess is already pretty darn good anti-computer
>chess.  It's when the GMs take unnecessary risks (or blunder) that they lost to
>computers.
>

What can I say different?


Rolf Tueschen

>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>(ii) From my very personal view the games from Bahrain show the superiority of
>>>human+computer teams over single computers, even if the human is only an amateur
>>>player.
>>
>>Could you elaborate what this combination should be worth here for this game?
>>
>>
>>Rolf Tueschen
>>
>>
>>>No Elo-2000 player would have selected 12... Bf8 amongst a set of for
>>>instance three similarily evaluated candidate moves; and most Elo-2000 players
>>>would have prefered a candidate move like 13...Bd5 over the wrong pawn fixing
>>>13...b4.
>>>
>>>Ingo Althofer.



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