Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: A weird scenario: Better for chess that Kasparov loses?

Author: Chessfun

Date: 12:52:45 10/08/02

Go up one level in this thread


On October 08, 2002 at 15:37:16, Omid David wrote:

>On October 08, 2002 at 14:52:12, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:
>
>>On October 08, 2002 at 13:41:34, Omid David wrote:
>>
>>>On October 08, 2002 at 13:19:55, Knut Bjørnar Wålberg wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 08, 2002 at 13:09:11, Omid David wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 08, 2002 at 12:38:34, Knut Bjørnar Wålberg wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>If Kramnik mops the floor with Deep Fritz, a rather odd situation might arise:
>>>>>>What will most strengthen the belief that the top human(s) is in fact better
>>>>>>than any machine/program ever created?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That Kasparov later crushes Deep Junior, or that he loses?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If Kasparov wins without problems, it could be argued that the Chessbase
>>>>>>products are clearly not up to the standard of Deep Blue. However, if Kasparov
>>>>>>loses, then DF and DJ should at least be on par with DB2, and therefore Kramnik
>>>>>>is even stronger, and it's just Kasparov that doesn't know how to play
>>>>>>computers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I know there are other factors that come into play (especially the way the
>>>>>>players were able to prepare), but how do you all think the world in general
>>>>>>will perceive these different scenarios? What is the ideal score in the two
>>>>>>matches when it comes to creating interest in chess and computer chess?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As a final note, it seems to me that Deep Blue might end up as a sort of Bobby
>>>>>>Fischer of computer chess; Perceived by many as the greatest ever, a statement
>>>>>>that one can neither prove nor disprove at the moment. Any comments on that? ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Knut Bjørnar Wålberg
>>>>>
>>>>>Arguing against Junior or Fritz, saying Deep Blue was better, is ridiculous.
>>>>>It's exactly like saying Fischer is better than Kasparov or Kramnik. Deep Blue
>>>>>was the strongest at its time, so was Fischer at his time, they both retired,
>>>>>and so they're both irrelevant.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I agree, but will the public see it the same way? After all, IBM managed to
>>>>create publicity far beyond the chess / computer world with their machine, and
>>>>most people don't know about IBM's cynical acts. In order to remove all doubt,
>>>>it might be best if Kasparov loses again.
>>>>
>>>
>>>If Kasparov loses, I will personally argue: "Kramnik's win doesn't count since
>>>he already had the very exact program; and also, Fritz wasn't the best program
>>>in the world as the last two years' world computer chess championships clearly
>>>indicate. But Junior (the strongest computer program) won Kasparov (the
>>>strongest human player) and that shows that computers are superior"
>>
>>Junior lost to Fritz and Kasparov to Kramnik.
>>Kasparov vs. Junior is for the bronze medal.
>
>
>Junior has won this year's WCCC and last year's WMCCC, with Fritz being a
>participant in both these tournaments. Junior has proved itself to be the
>strongest program in the past two years, not losing even one single game to a
>human.
>
>Kasparov continues to be the highest rated chess player, and as his last year's
>results show, he is far stronger than Kramnik.

Based on human v human play, his record in human v comp isn't quite so
impressive.

Sarah.


>
>So while this "Brains in Bahrain" thing is just a mere joke, the Jerusalem event
>will be the true rematch of "Human vs Machine", when the strongest program and
>the strongest human will meet.
>
>
>>
>>Miguel



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.